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-   -   Tennessee Bill Would Require Death Certificates for Aborted Fetuses (http://www.shreveport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=771)

Isaac-Saxxon 02-15-2007 11:02 AM

Tennessee Bill Would Require Death Certificates for Aborted Fetuses
 
If I walk up and hit a lady that is with child and she miscarries I go to jail for fratricide but a "Doctor" can kill the child in the womb and that is "Choice" I think that this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252113,00.html :clap:
Isaac

AnimeSpirit 02-15-2007 03:25 PM

Abortion is a sensative topic. It is merely my personal opinion, but I would agree with someone having an abortion only under certain circumstances. For one, if the child was conceived by an act of rape, I could see where abortion could be justified. Such a thing would be tramatic enough and I wouldn't want to grow up knowing that I exist because someone did a horrible thing to my mother.

Or if the mother carries an illness that is certain to be passed on to the child (i.e. HIV), I could see her unwillingness to bring a child into the world to deal with that kind of issue.

However, a lot of these young "players" that we see who choose abortion because they were too ignorant to "glove-up" need to grow-up first.

joepole 02-15-2007 03:32 PM

>I wouldn't want to grow up knowing that I exist because someone did a horrible thing to my mother.

If you found out tomorrow that was the case would you kill yourself?

Why should a child be punished for the circumstances surrounding its conception?

LateNight 02-15-2007 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnimeSpirit
Abortion is a sensative topic.

Yea, you got that right. And I'm not about to touch this topic with a 10ft pole. however, I will notice we have 3 "GUYS" posting about it. Personally I feel that as "guys" we got no business discussing this. We will never have to make this very personal decision. Yea yea, I know as potential fathers/boyfriends etc etc.. you might have a say-so. But the bottom line for me on this one, is it's a woman's choice, and I say let them debate about it 'till the cows come home and come to a decision. When men start getting pregnant, then your .02 will be worth something.

And that is ALL I'm going to say on this subject, I'm abandoning this thread quickly :peace:

Isaac-Saxxon 02-15-2007 04:17 PM

A child is a gift no matter the race or sex
 
I could never after having three daughters want to deal with knowing that I had a hand in killing any child in the womb or any where else as far as that goes. I have two friends that have been to that fire both have young kids now and every time they look that baby in the eye they have be thinking of the sibling that may sitting in the room with them had not they made that "choice" to abort. I do not disown my friends I can just see them at times stressing over something that happened ten years ago. I think any of you that have kids would agree to some degree on this.
Isaac

Isaac-Saxxon 02-16-2007 07:32 AM

Oh come on now LateNight
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LateNight
Yea, you got that right. And I'm not about to touch this topic with a 10ft pole. however, I will notice we have 3 "GUYS" posting about it. Personally I feel that as "guys" we got no business discussing this. We will never have to make this very personal decision. Yea yea, I know as potential fathers/boyfriends etc etc.. you might have a say-so. But the bottom line for me on this one, is it's a woman's choice, and I say let them debate about it 'till the cows come home and come to a decision. When men start getting pregnant, then your .02 will be worth something.

And that is ALL I'm going to say on this subject, I'm abandoning this thread quickly :peace:

Any time some one interrupts the natural order of things such as a fetus coming to fruit is messing with mother nature in a very bad way. They do have the babies and they do have the choice and many times fathers have a vote too. If it was my child I would fight tooth and nail to save his or her life and when ladies give birth to a still born child they name it and give it a birth certificate and a head stone that is just the facts.
Isaac-Saxxon

BrainSmashR 02-16-2007 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
If I walk up and hit a lady that is with child and she miscarries I go to jail for fratricide but a "Doctor" can kill the child in the womb and that is "Choice" I think that this hits the nail on the head.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252113,00.html :clap:
Isaac


As per your usual, you don't understand that you cannot force your opinions on to other individuals...

Abortion is a terrible choice some women have to make. You killing the unborn child through an act of violence isn't even close to the same thing.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-16-2007 12:28 PM

I am not trying to force my opinions on anybody
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
As per your usual, you don't understand that you cannot force your opinions on to other individuals...

Abortion is a terrible choice some women have to make. You killing the unborn child through an act of violence isn't even close to the same thing.

I do not have to you keep all my post alive and everybody makes their own mind up and you or me have no say so in that.

The result of a abortion is a dead child and that is not a opinion that is a fact young man. Ever talk to anybody that has been thru that fire ? I am sure it is not something they are proud of or even won't to talk about. Maybe you have been to that fire. Oh your zeal is showing :laugh:
Isaac

Lions Welp 02-16-2007 01:09 PM

This is a hot topic here so
 
I have kids and the idea that I could have destroyed one of them does not sit well with me. I have to side with prolife. I know it is a personal choice and a sad one at that. My neighbors son fathered a child and they put it up for adoption and that was very, very hard on both family's too. I am sure the child will be happy about it :clap:

BrainSmashR 02-16-2007 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
I do not have to you keep all my post alive and everybody makes their own mind up and you or me have no say so in that.

The result of a abortion is a dead child and that is not a opinion that is a fact young man. Ever talk to anybody that has been thru that fire ? I am sure it is not something they are proud of or even won't to talk about. Maybe you have been to that fire. Oh your zeal is showing :laugh:
Isaac

Abortion is legal and a choice, you striking an individual to the extent that you kill their unborn child is neither legal, nor a choice made by the mother.

Justify your propaganda to yourself anyway you see fit. I already understand you oppose freedom of choice....the very basic ideal upon which our country was founded.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 03:40 AM

Freedom of "Choice" to kill a child
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Abortion is legal and a choice, you striking an individual to the extent that you kill their unborn child is neither legal, nor a choice made by the mother.

Justify your propaganda to yourself anyway you see fit. I already understand you oppose freedom of choice....the very basic ideal upon which our country was founded.

Call it what you will freedom or choice but I still call it what it is a dead child and that is not propaganda that is the end result. Oh yes it is legal but the ten commandments are not now what is wrong with this picture. Right is wrong and wrong is right all under the PC slogan. Just because it is legal or not legal does not make it morally correct. This anti American crap has gone way to far and in the end a correction will come. Don't walk on my freedom of speech. :clap:
Isaac

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 03:51 AM

You're the only person I see advocating Anti-American sentiment.

People who support the law are not Socialist. Women who choose abortion are not murders. The Supreme Court does not make law.

You being to simple to understand the difference is not only your own fault, but a rather common characteristic of the zealot....hence separation of church and state.

Congratulations on being part of your perceived problem rather than a part of the solution you seek.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 03:59 AM

Your anit American way is the cancer that is bring us down
 
The Thrasher strikes again. I am sooooooooooo glad to see this Tenn Bill that will require death certificates for aborted fetuses become "LAW" but I am sure when it is law that will not change the way you think. Kill our childern under the banner of choice :nono:
Isaac

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 04:06 AM

I have absolutely no problem with the proposed law.

You know it's not unheard of for someone to be pro-choice and not condone abortion at the same time

It's called freedom of choice....as in not trying to force my opinions onto others. A concept zealots like yourself simply can't grasp.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 04:18 AM

You make me laugh when you use the term zealots
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
I have absolutely no problem with the proposed law.

You know it's not unheard of for someone to be pro-choice and not condone abortion at the same time

It's called freedom of choice....as in not trying to force my opinions onto others. A concept zealots like yourself simply can't grasp.

I have zeal for what I believe to be moral and correct. You too have zeal for what you believe so what is wrong with that ? You are anybody's dog that wants to hunt with you. Go with the wind young man. If it feels good just do it after all it is your choice and choice is what it is all about to you. Wake up call might just come to late for a man of the world like you.
Isaac

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 04:25 AM

My zeal is based on democratically established law, and the precedence established by those laws.

Yours are based on your own interpretation of the Bible.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 04:30 AM

So now you are saying you are a zealot
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
My zeal is based on democratically established law, and the precedence established by those laws.

Yours are based on your own interpretation of the Bible.

Sounds like your faith is in the words of a judge. So BSr do you think God exist ? It is after all your choice :rolleyes:
Isaac

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 08:09 AM

Sounds like you still don't understand how laws are made.

Do my religious beliefs have any relavence to the subject at hand or are you just searching for another reason to pass judgment despite what the Bible teaches?

typical....

Neo 02-17-2007 08:13 AM

BS on BrainSmashR
 
You talk about not forcing your opinion on people. The ultimate forcing of an opinion is aborting a life with your oversimplified justification. Sounds like communism to me (or a Ted Kennedy speech):confused:

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
You talk about not forcing your opinion on people. The ultimate forcing of an opinion is aborting a life with your oversimplified justification. Sounds like communism to me (or a Ted Kennedy speech):confused:

Hate to break the news to you buddy, but it's not MY justification, it's the law.

Want to make a difference? Cast your vote for politicians who support your way of thinking.....you guys are in the majority right? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Neo 02-17-2007 08:52 AM

A Law is what happpens to be a popular rule at a particular point in time. Morality is born from personal conviction. Sounds like law and controversy is dictating your morality. Who invented the abortion procedure anyway.... Was it born out of concentration camp or something or from China as a way to control population? Just wondering

Maybe isaac has an answer since he seems to be a historian or biblical scholar of somesort:cool:

Lions Welp 02-17-2007 09:15 AM

How can anybody think killing a baby is a good Choice
 
I guess each forum has a heckler that has to show up. I went and looked at your web site BSR and the photos of you and your "buddies" is worth a thousand words. Are you a gothic person or just a bunch of guys that are just wasted ? Your ideas about morals are lacking to a great degree. Call me judgmental fine I am but I can read what you have written on this thread and look at your web site and see enough to have a good idea of what it is you say you stand for and I just do not see anything good here. What has happened to our youth.

Neo 02-17-2007 09:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 105


This is what is happening to our youth. If it takes an village to raise an idiot, what happens when the village becomes majority idiots:mad: .

Lions Welp 02-17-2007 09:35 AM

Now that is TMI big time
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
Attachment 105


This is what is happening to our youth. If it takes an village to raise an idiot, what happens when the village becomes majority idiots:mad: .

I am prolife but that photo is just too much to look at. I agree it is the end result of a abortion. This makes me very sad to see :(

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 09:50 AM

A human life is just that a human life
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
Attachment 105


This is what is happening to our youth. If it takes an village to raise an idiot, what happens when the village becomes majority idiots:mad: .

This is a bit graphic but it does make the point. I defenceless child killed by a so called doctor in the name of choice. I am sure doctors that do this kind of thing will not have a choice for themselves in the end. Where are all you bleeding hearts when it comes to crimes against nature and the rights of the unborn ??
Isaac

Rough Rider 02-17-2007 10:12 AM

You people crack me up. First off that's not a picture of an "abortion" and we all know it. And I'm not going to get into an argument at what point a life starts, but that 'baby' looks like it made it 8 months or so before what ever happened to it.

When are you people going to learn to have a decent debate. First we went off on the Judge who got busted for his decision. If someone disagrees with you, they are labeled socialist, or nazis. now it's abortion you want to talk about, and if someone disagrees with you, they are now immoral low-life junkies.

I'm gonna listen to LateNight's advice on this one, and abandon this thread now as well.

People can disagree without all the name calling, it's like being on a playground at high noon.

Neo 02-17-2007 10:16 AM

Sorry about the graphic..Truth is sometimes scary, and the consequences horrifying.... What next, will the next law make it mandantory that god get written consent prior to creation. Sounds silly, however some are heading in that direction. I suppose Lucifer would be the lawyer to serve the papers

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 11:31 AM

What is wrong with standing up for the unborn ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rough Rider
You people crack me up. First off that's not a picture of an "abortion" and we all know it. And I'm not going to get into an argument at what point a life starts, but that 'baby' looks like it made it 8 months or so before what ever happened to it.

When are you people going to learn to have a decent debate. First we went off on the Judge who got busted for his decision. If someone disagrees with you, they are labeled socialist, or nazis. now it's abortion you want to talk about, and if someone disagrees with you, they are now immoral low-life junkies.

I'm gonna listen to LateNight's advice on this one, and abandon this thread now as well.

People can disagree without all the name calling, it's like being on a playground at high noon.

Hey there RR. This is and always will be a hot topic. This is #1 on the liberal agenda and to kill a child is just that and by passing a law that says it is ok to do that does not change the fact that it is murder in the first degree. Heck they even have to have a appointment how much more premeditated can it get. You may choose to ride the fence but I will speak up every time I can for the unborn child. :clap:
Isaac

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rough Rider
You people crack me up. First off that's not a picture of an "abortion" and we all know it. And I'm not going to get into an argument at what point a life starts, but that 'baby' looks like it made it 8 months or so before what ever happened to it.


Well lies and false accusations ARE the standard tactic of the zealot.

However I disagree with abandoning the topic. I prefer the method of giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I mean it took Neo less than a day to post his photo....of course he didn't realize most people know the difference between a 90 day old fetus and a fully developed baby....with hair no less.

Notice he added it as an attachment so the rest of us couldn't see where the photo originated from. My guess is he knows the truth too....:clap:

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
Who invented the abortion procedure anyway.... Was it born out of concentration camp or something or from China as a way to control population? Just wondering

Isn't it interesting how the uneducated always tend to blame everything they disagree with on Nazi Germany?


2600 BC –First recorded recipe for an abortion producing drug.

1850 BC –Egyptians record recipe for contraceptive pessaries, one made from crocodile dung.

4th Century AD –St.Augustine lays down Catholic dogma sanctioning abortion up to 80 days for female fetus and up to 40 days for male fetus.

13th Century AD -St.Thomas Aquinas states Catholic dogma justifying sexual intercourse only for procreation.

1564 AD -Italian anatomist, Fallopius, discoverer of Fallopian tubes, publicizes condoms as anti-venereal disease devices.

1588 – Pope Sixtus forbids all abortions.

1591 – Pope Gregory XIV rescinds Pope Sixtus’ edict against abortion.

1803 – Great Britain makes abortion a misdemeanor.

1821 – Connecticut outlaws abortion after quickening, early abortions are legal.

1860’s – All states pass comprehensive, criminal abortion laws. Most remain until 1973.

1869 – Pope Pius IX forbids all abortions in exchange for France’s Napoleon III acknowledging papal infallibility. France’s population experienced a sharp decrease over the previous 60 years.

1873 – Federal Comstock laws enacted prohibiting mailing or distribution of information on birth control and abortion.

1879 – Margaret Higgins Sanger is born. She led the movement for birth control in the U.S.

1882 – First “modern” birth control clinic in the world opens in Holland, sponsored by trade unions.

1913 – Margaret Sanger arrested for violation of Comstock laws because of feminist birth control columns in, The Woman Rebel.

1916 - Margaret Sanger & her sister, Ethel Byrne jailed for dispensing contraceptive information at first American birth control clinic in Brooklyn, NY.

1924 – First scientific confirmation of women’s ovulatory and fertility cycle.

1930 – Pope Pius XI affirms Catholic dogma that every act of sexual intercourse is a sin unless performed with a reproductive intent.

1942 – Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control Federation of America becomes Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

1956 – Dr. John Rock (a Catholic) and others developed the birth control pill. Their research was funded by two women.

1960’s – FBI crime reports showed organized crime rings made enormous profits performing dangerous abortions. Any doctors caught performing a safe abortion were sent to prison, fined, and had their medical license taken away.

1963 – Pope Paul IV issues encyclical Humanae Vitae condemning artificial birth control.

1965 – In Griswold v. Connecticut, U.S. Supreme Court rules Connecticut’s law prohibiting birth control for married couples violates a newly defined right of marital privacy.

1967 – Then-Governor Ronald Reagan of California signs the most liberal abortion law of the times allowing freedom of choice during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy.

1970 – Hawaii, Alaska, and New York repeal criminal abortion laws allowing abortion in the first trimester.

1970 – Belotti v Baird II decision allows states to require parental consent for abortion so long as there is a confidential judicial bypass.

1972 – Supreme Court finds the right to privacy of unmarried persons violated by Massachusetts law against distribution of contraceptives in Eisenstadt v Baird. Justice Brennan in the majority opinion states that all Americans have a right to bear and beget children free from government interference.

1973 – On January 22, 1973 the U.S. Supreme Court in a 7-2 decision, hands down Roe v Wade making a 1st trimester abortion a private decision between a woman & her physician. In the 2nd trimester states
can put limitations on abortion with regard to the health of the pregnant woman. In the 3rd trimester states can make abortion illegal except to save the life of the woman.

1973 – Indiana passes first call for a Constitutional Convention to ban abortion.

1974 - Hope Clinic for Women in Granite City, IL, opens as one of the first abortion providers.

1976 – Hyde Amendment is passed barring the use of federal Medicaid funds to provide abortions to poor women.

1977 – A revised Hyde Amendment is passed which allows states to deny Medicaid funding except in cases of rape, incest, or severe and long lasting damage to the woman’s physical health. Rosise Jimenez, a 27- year-old mother on welfare, died of an illegal abortion as she could not afford to get a legal abortion due to the Hyde Amendment.

1977 – First reported arson at an abortion clinic (in St. Paul, MN) and first know bombing of an abortion clinic (in Cincinnati, OH).

1980 – 19 of the 34 states required have passed calls for a Constitutional Convention.

1982 - Janyary, 1/3 of Hope Clinic destroyed by fire bomb.

1982 - August, physician who owns Hope Clinic kidnapped along with his wife by three men calling themselves the Army of God. Both were held bound, blindfolded, and gagged on the dirt floor of an abandoned munitions bunker for eight days. All three men went to jail.

1989 – Webster v Reproductive Health Services is handed down by Supreme Court allowing states to place increased restrictions on access.

1991 – Supreme Court upholds Title X gag rule (restriction on mentioning abortion in federally funded clinics) in Rust v Sullivan. Congress votes overwhelmingly to overturn gag rule, but override of Pres. Bush’s veto fails narrowly.

1993 – Newly inaugurated President Clinton reverses several anti-choice policies of Reagan & Bush administrations including gag rule.

1993 – Dr.David Gunn is murdered by anti-choice fanatic in Florida. He is the first of a series of abortion providers shot in the following years.

1994 – President Clinton signs Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act (FACE) making it a federal crime to interfere with the provision of reproductive health care.

1994 – Dr. John Britton, Lt. Col. Jim Barrett, Shannon Lowney, and Leanne Nichols are murdered in shootings at three abortion clinics.

1995 – U.S. clinical trials of mifepristone (RU486)

1998 – 25 years of legal abortion in America.

1999 - Hope Clinic moves to state-of-the-art building.

2000 – FDA approves Mifeprex (RU486)

2000 - Hope Clinic begins offering the abortion pill (Mifeprex).

2004 - Hope Clinic turns 30 years old.

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 12:21 PM

Are you bipolar ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Well lies and false accusations ARE the standard tactic of the zealot.

However I disagree with abandoning the topic. I prefer the method of giving them enough rope to hang themselves. I mean it took Neo less than a day to post his photo....of course he didn't realize most people know the difference between a 90 day old fetus and a fully developed baby....with hair no less.

Notice he added it as an attachment so the rest of us couldn't see where the photo originated from. My guess is he knows the truth too....:clap:

You are a zealot too there BSr just for the dark side of the issue. Bottom line you are for killing babies in the womb and I am NOT ! You promote hate on your web site and cause trouble on other web sites. I take it you are on lunch break and it is almost time to punch in so hit the clock BSr.

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 12:23 PM

The difference is that I don't have to lie, break the law, or support criminal activity...

Isaac-Saxxon 02-17-2007 12:34 PM

Yea right
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
The difference is that I don't have to lie, break the law, or support criminal activity...

Your starting to believe your own BSr :laugh:

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 12:43 PM

The proof is here for everyone to see.

Neo's pic is the lie...I'm pretty sure third trimester abortions are illegal in every state with the exception of medical emergencies (Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003).

Roy Moore broke the law by having the monument erected and again by refusing to remove it.

You support his actions.

No BS involved, only truth that you can't dispute so you resort to personal attack. The last refuge of the defeated.

Neo 02-17-2007 12:53 PM

You are correct. That picture is a late term abortion. According to your logic it was legal at one point, so while it was legal it was ok.. Did not mean to hurt your feelings. I think you resembled marylin manson in the photo i saw, I own two of his cds. ps the photo came from media archive from medical school.

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 01:01 PM

As I stated earlier, being pro-choice does not mean I condone abortion. It means I understand freedom of choice is the most important right we have as Americans.

Thank you for admitting about your photo what some of us already knew. While I disagree with the propaganda you tried to slip under the table, at least your man enough to admit when you've been caught.

Neo 02-17-2007 01:12 PM

I think your misinformed about what I wrote. It is an abortion. It is late term. It was legal and not just for medical emergencies. I'm in the medical field and that is how I obtained the photo from med school. It is sorry to say that, eventhough it is now illegal,if the mother waits and delivers the baby and then dropps it in the dumpster... It is child abondonment and not exactly murder. If pro choice is an entitlement that is liberating, why doesn't the father have the right to say the mother is allowed to have:rolleyes: the child?

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
I think your misinformed about what I wrote. It is an abortion. It is late term. It was legal and not just for medical emergencies. I'm in the medical field and that is how I obtained the photo from med school. It is sorry to say that, eventhough it is now illegal,if the mother waits and delivers the baby and then dropps it in the dumpster... It is child abondonment and not exactly murder. If pro choice is an entitlement that is liberating, why doesn't the father have the right to say the mother is allowed to have:rolleyes: the child?

For the same reason the father isn't allowed to not pay child support for a child he doesn't want. I'm not a lawyer and I can't give you specifics...all I can tell you is that in most abnormal cases (abortion, child birth out of wedlock, etc) that the father is considered little more than a sperm donor.

BTW, I'm not misinformed about what you wrote, your propaganda was an attempt to mislead the reader through an emotional response. You posted the very graphic results of an illegal procedure in defense of your stance on a perfectly legal procedure.

Neo 02-17-2007 01:30 PM

just stating facts and giving illustration..... It is simply put an abortion is an abortion no matter term. the actual life being destroyed does not have a choice..not much of pro choice if you ask me. Enjoyed the spirited debate. Your right and i'm right. Just glad my mother did not have your logic

BrainSmashR 02-17-2007 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo
just stating facts and giving illustration..... It is simply put an abortion is an abortion no matter term. the actual life being destroyed does not have a choice..not much of pro choice if you ask me. Enjoyed the spirited debate. Your right and i'm right. Just glad my mother did not have your logic

I see, so murder is murder right? As in every soldier that has defended our freedom since the dawn of our country is going to hell, right?


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