Dumbing-Down of America
 

We are paying more money to the school system and the kids are doing worse on their scores in school. It was just after 1962 that the ACLU and many others decided to take God out of our schools and every thing else we do including a new one dollar coin that was minted. Well if you will read this column you will see that after 1964 things went down hill. I have read other studies on this and the SAT and ACT scores have both gone in the tank
and there is a direct connection between the two ! :nono:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19684
Isaac

I agree entirely that students are just not as smart as they use to be coming out of high school. Basic reading, math, and science are dwindling to nothing in many graduates. However, there are more factors to consider that this article doesn't seem to address.

For one, there are far more students in school than there was back in 1962. The more burden you put on a simple system, the more shaky and less efficient that system becomes.

Secondly, the curriculums are somewhat different and often more complex in today's schools. Math and science aren't what they were back in 1962. New discoveries are being made all the time and new methods are being learned that make the simple lessons from 1962 into entire chapters here in 2007. Did you learn about variables in your Algebra class back in high school? Did you discuss the human genome in your biology classes? Did you ever learn what a quark was in your physics classes or what the center of an atom is called? I wouldn't know for sure because I graduated in 2000, but if you went to school before 1970, I'd imagine you didn't discuss these things.

It's hard to know where the improvements must be made in today's schools though. I think that student behavior is a problem because too many students care more about disrupting class, playing hooky, or dropping out entirely than actually doing their assignments. This was an observation I made in school. If teachers and high faculty put more effort into enforcing student behavior and parents made more effort in ensuring their children study and complete their assignments, I'd imagine some bright students would start emerging from the woodworks.

All good comments there Anime, and all so true.
what I find most disturbing, from the schools my children have been in, is the complete lack of homework. It seems in the public shools, they are all about "Teaching the Test" so as to improve on those national test scores. As opposed to letting a qualified teacher "TEACH" real lessons.

And also as you have said, a lot of this has to do with parent participation, be it in the actual school activities or being more involved in raising their children, so as not to be so disruptive in class. Back in the early 80's when I was in high school, we had those types of kids in class, but the rest of us knew them to be idiots and they were looked down upon. Nowadays I think these trouble makers are starting to outnumber the kids who are actually paying attention.

Personally I'm all for trying to improve out public schools.. but I just don't know what the answers are.. My kids have spent time in public and private catholic schools.. They always do MUCH better in the private schools.

I agree that private schools are better
 

My kids have been in public schools the entire time. One left to go and she is 16 almost and thanks to my wife they had help with home work and she would always keep up with them while I am the bad cop and work long hours but it has turned out great. Not because of public schools or the teachers but because of good parenting and Christian values that we keep at the front of our family. I shall look up the study done on the effect of laws made in 1962 and there after. Sad but oh so true that the moral decline in public schools both in students and teachers has reached a point that the scores are in decline.
Isaac

My sentiments, too!

>take God out of our schools and every thing else we do including a new one dollar coin that was minted.

The new dollar coins have the (admittedly lame) "In God we Trust" motto on them.

What's wrong with teaching to the test if you assume the test is a good measure of subject mastery?

Joe you have very young children
 

You will not be laughing when they hit 12 or 13 and all the moral decline has gotten even worse than it is now. Maybe you can afford private school but you might want to save some money. It is a fact that they took God out of our schools in 1962 and are still working on it now and it is a fact that the moral decline is out of hand and the scores have gone down. I see by your (admittedly lame) comment about "In God we Trust" you must be of the anti Christian group that would like to see America striped of God. We all reap what it is we sow. The "numbers" joe do not lie and you are a numbers man !
Isaac

Teaching for the test is not developing analytical thinking skills. Several college professors told me students are not prepared for college math and science classes when they begin college. They see it as a crisis for the future of our country.

Drilling students is not teaching, anyway. If students are having a difficult time grasping a math skill the teacher can't keep working on it until they get it, because the teacher has to stop and start teaching another subject. Everything has to be taught at a certain time. Good teachers hate this.

Well, at the same time, good teachers expect students who don't get it to put some of their own time into getting it as well. I agree with the rest of what you're saying. Teaching only for a simple set of questions on a test will not teach a student how to solve similar problems that are not directly on the test.

Hello, hello !! Thank your local ACLU for the moral decline
 

Which is directly related to how our children are doing in school. To late to put the monkey back in the box I wonder where the bottom is for the education system ? Will we go back to the two groups the haves and have knots ? If this is the case all the entitlements and give away programs have done is teach people to be lazy and not willing to self motivate to learn and get to the point of paying taxes and being a working part of society.
Isaac

Well said there Isabella.. Better than I could have put it.

>Teaching for the test is not developing analytical thinking skills

It does if the test adequately tests analytical thinking skills. Also, analytical thinking skills are a small part of what children should be taught in school. There's a whole slew of stuff that need to just know.

>I see by your (admittedly lame) comment about "In God we Trust" you must be of the anti Christian group that would like to see America striped of God.

I am not, I just think that's not a very good motto for our country. Our country isn't unique for its trust of God, it's unique for many other things. We fought a war to get out from under the thumb of England, a country with a state religion. England created that religion to get away from the influence of Rome. Trusting God is something all of these governments have claimed to do.

Our motto should mention freedom or equality of opportunity. We don't have a state religion so our motto should be secular.

Our country was founded with this motto
 

"In God We Trust" is the very foundation of this country. The Ten Commandments and the Bible are not state sponsored religion but the very truth of how this great nation became the super power it is. No one will address the decline in scores and increase in crime about the time it was decided to remove God from our system of government. The dirty work of the ACLU has come to fruit and we just do not know how are why are kids are killing each other and STD's are so rampant ? There is a note on most calendars called B.C. and A.D. that make a very strong statement !

Anno Domini (Latin : "In the year of (Our) Lord"[1]), abbreviated as AD, defines an epoch based on the traditionally reckoned year of the conception or birth of Jesus of Nazareth. AD is also an abbreviation for Christian Era.[2] Similarly, Before Christ (from the Ancient Greek "Christos" or "Anointed One", referring to Jesus), abbreviated as BC, is used in the English language to denote years before the start of this epoch. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Isaac

That is all true, but that is not a unique part of America either. America was formed on the foundation of freedom. The very first of the Bill of Rights sets freedom of religion and there continues to be many religions in America today. With this in mind, it would be more proper to say that this country was founded on many religions and not imply that a specific one contributed more than others.

I disagree Anime
 

This country was founded on Christian principals and by Christians. Christianity is not a religion but a reality. England had a state run religion but American has many religions and religious freedom but most all of them where Christian in origin now days the melting pot has brought with it other religions but that was not how this country was founded.
Isaac

>"In God We Trust" is the very foundation of this country. The Ten Commandments and the Bible are not state sponsored religion but the very truth of how this great nation became the super power it is.

Even if that were true it's true for scores of countries, which still makes it a crappy motto for ours. That's like having your baseball team's motto be "We all have gloves!"

>There is a note on most calendars called B.C. and A.D. that make a very strong statement !

Actually, most people who deal with dates on a professional level use "CE" and "BCE" (common era and before common era).

>This country was founded on Christian principals and by Christians.

Both of these statements are flat-out incorrect. None of the principles on which our country was founded were based on Christianity (that's not to say they aren't also beliefs held by Christians and/or the Christian churches) and hardly any of our founding fathers were Christians.

This nation is the one in which Christianity has intersected most successfully with capitalism, but we are in no sense of the expression "a Christian nation." This is a good thing.

Let's talk history:
http://www.shreveport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3607

Your response:

Your BCE and CE have been added on
 

This was not the origins of these terms (BCE & CE) that would come later as we reached the PC world in which we live. There where some of the tribes of Israel in 5000 B.C. here in the USA on the AR River and Colorado River and other rivers like the Mississippi where ancient Olgam has been found with the Ten Commandments have been etched in large stones. See the Author on this link http://www.equinox-project.com/drfell.htm Barry Fell who has now passed away has found old world records in ancient America. Looking for hard evidence that this is a country of men that the Bible speaks of in the tribe of Dan the ship builders that traveled the earth from all the towns in Europe with the name Dan somewhere in them to travel to South America and North America. Barry Fell is so far ahead of the curve for those of you who might care to know the real facts this book is great.
Isaac

Could you pass the test to become a American citizen ?
 

Try to pass the test if you can !
http://games.toast.net/independence/
Isaac
Dare to post your score ??? :clap:

HA.. just barely.. with a score of 24 :peace:

Some trick questions in there
 

I scored 70 :rolleyes:
Isaac
Love to hear the scores of Matty and Joe ??

How DARE you people accuse Joe of being "dourly pragmatic"...it would be far more accurate to say that he is pragmatically dour!:D

Al you help with good ideas about mortal man
 

The Greek phrase Molōn labe! (Μολὼν λαβέ; pronunciation in Modern Greek [molon lave]), meaning "Come and take [them]!", is a classical (reported by Plutarch) expression of daring and bravery, roughly corresponding to the modern "over my dead body" or "from my cold dead hands", or more literally to the "Come and take it" slogan from the Texas Revolution Battle of Gonzales. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I got an 18. If I cared more about politics, I'd probably know more. :p

Thankyou, Isaac. The phrase was famously first used in the battle of Thermopylae by the Spartan King Leonidas, in response to the Persian King's offer to spare the 300 Spartan defender's lives if they would lay down their arms. The motto has been taken up by the modern defenders of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The feature film "300", now showing at theaters, is a dramatization of the battle at Thermopylae.

Al you are up to 566 points
 

That just does not happen for no reason. You have lived two lives and it shows in your wisdom. I enjoy your post and wit and the way you handle up on those girls on the board. Keep them guessing Al. Let them know who is the King Beef Cake on this board :laugh: :laugh:
Isaac

Hate to burst your Jesus bubble there, buddy, but there was a much more significant movement in the '60's which is the specific reason for the fall in test scores. Ever heard of desegregation?

Check the test scores of your own public schools before and after the influx of Katrina refugees. You'll notice the exact same "phenomenon"...

...and don't even get me started on the 44% black drop-out rate in this state alone.

Hey buddy good to see you back
 

Hey there Brain ! Don't worry you have not busted my Jesus bubble it would take much more than someone like you to do that. I see you have not yet learned the real facts about the Bible. It is written there would be people like you Brain that can not make the leap of faith. Hey buddy that is ok because there is a millennium (1000 years) for you to get your act together so there is still hope for you and I will keep you in my prayers and who knows what our Father has in mind for you. You sure helped people on this board take a stand for what they believe and that is a good thing. For every positive there is a negative. You must have been working hard over the last few days and good to see you back up to speed. I do agree that the black race is lagging in the academic area and do have some effect on SAT and ACT scores but the main cause is taking God out of our society and schools and it is your "Choice" not to agree but it is too your loss.
Isaac

Actually test scores are falling at private and religious based institutions as well.....nice try though. It is a choice whether or not one agrees with the information, but opinions have zero effect on fact.

To be more specific, it's a combination of the above AND the removal of corporal punishment from the school system. Simply put, spanking works better than prayer.

I don't know about corporal punishment being the cause. We lost corporal punishment while I was in junior high. If grades have been falling since the 1960s and corporal punishment was removed in the 1990s, then it can't be a lack of corporal punishment causing the lack of intelligence in the school system.

Reversely, I don't think it's the lack of prayer in school either. I've never been a devout Christian, but I'd consider myself a bright and intelligent person. I was a B+ average in high school and we never had prayer in school.

I still think parents need to take a more active role in their childrens' behavior and education.

Actually relgion causes people to be stupid. The more you learn about religion, the worse you are likely to score on left wing liberal tests.

Whoa....consider yourself lucky if you were going to a school in the 90's that still utilized the "Board of Education".....your school was a rare one indeed....

Hey brain did you ever get the "Board of Education" ?
 

Could not help but wonder ? :D I do not recall kids in Caddo parish getting the "Board of Education" they just sent them to detention.
Isaac

....and look what Shreveport has to show for it.

Have you ever looked around Natchitoches ?
 

I have done some work in and around Natchitoches I do not know the children but the area looks bleak not to say Shreveport is that hot on the west side but I would say that Bossier City is the best kept secret around for low crime good schools and good police and I am glad I live there. Oh and I know you would want to know there are many good Christian families living all around us and that my daughter goes to school with. :D Hope you having a great day buddy.
Isaac

I haven't check it out personally, but my sister has seen many of the schools around Bossier City. Some aren't so bad and others, we'd rather avoid moving too close to. In all though, Bossier is in decent shape. I don't have any regrets in living here.

LOL I spent quite a few years living in Bossier City. Would have to say I had a blast doing it, as a matter of fact.. But to this day, you can tell when you've entered Bossier City, even with your eyes closed :)

Grew up in South Bossier, thinking and feeling like we OWNED the place :)

Currently living outside the shreveport city limits. And just loving it. Whether you are in shreveport or bossier, they both have some lovely spots.. and both have places I wouldn't want to be caught dead in.

Yeah Shreveport sux....Natchitoches has it going on!