Mother Teresa Struggled With Her Faith
 

Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear.
— Mother Teresa to the Rev. Michael Van Der Peet, September 1979

Does anyone find this surprising? She's Mother Teresa, yeah, but she's only human, and humans inherently have existential doubts and all of the associated emotions that this entails. I found myself pondering this as I considered the oblivion and extinction of self that death most likely represents. This line of thought would inevitably lead one to conclude that it really doesnt matter how we comport ourselves in life. Would, that is, if one truly held no hope. What a profoundly sad situation this atheism thing must be! Since it makes little sense to live a life devoid of meaning, you've gotta wonder if any true living atheists exist, presumably since anyone who could truthfully say such a thing about themselves would've already committed suicide.

Yes, all we really have is hope. Without it, we have nothing! Less than nothing.

Jesus Christ even struggled with his faith "My God, why have you abandoned me?"

Everyone struggles with their faith. Saints throughout history have written about their struggles. Everyone struggles. It is good to read about recent potential saints and their struggles. We relate better to them because we followed their lives.

Excellent point, Matt. Of course, one would'nt expect Him to have any doubts, since presumably He knows for certain. That He struggled with the question does nothing to bolster hope.

This is one of the biggest mistakes made by people because they are not willing to read for themselves. Christ when addressing "God" would say Father not God !!!!! Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. ... :pray::pray:this would also indicate that heaven is coming to earth and no one is going to be raptured out. The word rapture only occurs once in the Bible and is a mistranslation. Take some time to look it up !
Christ NEVER struggled with his faith NEVER !! He was teaching even up to his last words from the old testament. To say that Christ had doubt would be to bring him down as a mere mortal man and He is much, much more than that !!! Sorry here Matty this is not so much aimed at you as is people in general that will not pick up their Bible and read. Instead they let the stuffed shirt in the pulpit tell them what to think and were to send their money.

Christ was quoting the 22nd Psalm

To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.


http://www.carm.org/kjv/Psalms/Psalm_22.htm

A life without struggle is a life with nothing to gain. No hopes, dreams, goals, amibitions, or anything that one could want or need in life. A man who has obtained everything in life, must then struggle to keep it. Even He has hopes and therefore, logically has struggles and hardships.

As Tom Hanks once said (referring particularly to baseball), "The Hard is what makes it great."

Very true Isaac! Most people only know what they are taught by preachers in churches. I study the Bible on my own but still need much guidance from other sources as to help me with understanding the translations. The Sheperd's Chapel hosted by Arnold Murray is a fantastic tv program and resource. I was so surprised when I first began really listening and understanding! He's the first person that helped me make sense of the Bible.
http://www.shepherdschapel.com/:)

Christianity is a reality not a religion. The Bible is written to the individual soul not the preacher. There are many great teachers of the Word but now days far and few between. The best thing is to pick up your Bible and read it and have a Concordance to help you study. I would say to any of you that attend church to listen to your preacher and just count how many verses he reads in the service. If he is teaching you will know it because he will read the Bible if not he is a bag of hot air. They skew the truth and fleece the flock. I have two verses for you that care to read.

Amos 8

11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

You know why ? People have put their Bible away and rely on a blow hard to tell them what to believe. You want to unplug from the mainframe (matrix of sorts) then start thinking for yourself the spirit will fill you and true joy will be in your heart each and every day even when bad times hit you are strong.
Pokie good post and I am not here to judge any of you I have just put a lot of time in reading and understanding. PC Bible is a great study tool that you can buy for your computer. Six Bibles and many dictionaries and concordances.
I have had my rant but it comes deep from my heart.

:clapbig:

I loved that movie, "A league of their own". Tom Hanks is my favorite actor. I even watched him on the tv show "Bosom Buddies".

Attachment 1400
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Jesus words "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Jesus did not experience reprobation as if he himself had sinned. But in the redeeming love that always united him to the Father, he assumed us in the state of our waywardness of sin, to the point that he could say in our name from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Having thus established him in solidarity with us sinners, God "did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all", so that we might be "reconciled to God by the death of his Son".

Jesus was fully God and fully human. His humanity was displayed with these words as was his completion of the new covenant by quoting the words from the New Testament. Jesus wasn't just quoting for the sake of quoting. He was fully God AND fully human. Though He did not sin, He was tempted just as we are tempted.

Did you know that the documents in the Old Testament, and the New Testament were not actually written in English? The books of the New Testament were written by early Christians (aka Catholics). The current list of books of the Old and New Testaments was created in 393 A.D. at the Council of Hippo. This is the list used for the last 1700 years by Roman Catholics.

The New Testament was written by the Apostles, the first to spread the teachings of Christ. Following the same teachings and traditions of Christ through the Apostles, the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, assembled the Bible, interpreted, and translated it into the vernacular.

I find it very incredible that a Christian tradition can adopt a book of religious teaching from one Church, remove it from the context of 1200 years of study and interpretation, then tell said Church they do not know their own holy book.

This is to say that apart from the teaching and interpretation of God through the Roman Catholic Church, understanding of Biblical teachings is incomplete. You're right that we shouldn't simply take everything the "stuffed shirt" says as Gospel. The teachings of Christ through the Catholic Church are not simply "this is what you believe, end of story". The gifts of logic and reason are applied, throughout the history of the Catholic Church, to fully understand Christ's teachings, and appreciate the mysteries of God.

However, it is utter arrogance to think that each person can interpret the Bible for themselves and thus each person will have the truth. That way of thinking is nothing more than theological relativism, a practice which leads to nothing but confusion and contradiction.

To many, the origin of the Bible can be summed-up as follows: "A mere translation of a translation of an interpretation of an oral tradition" - and therefore, a book with no credibility or connection to the original texts. Actually, the foregoing statement is a common misunderstanding of both Christians and non-christians alike. Translations such as the King James Version are derived from existing copies of ancient manuscripts such as the Hebrew Masoretic Text (Old Testament) and the Greek Textus Receptus (New Testament), and are not translations of texts translated from other interpretations. The primary differences between today's Bible translations are merely related to how translators interpret a word or sentence from the original language of the text source (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek).

In addition, these texts agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC.

Matty I respect your post but I do not agree with your statement. The original Hebrew and Greek text have acrostics built into them that lock in the truth. I am that I am dictated the Bible with human hands as scribes. The entire Bible is divinely inspired. This comes down to what IT is we believe as individuals. I respect your interpretation I just do not agree. I think we are both seeking truth and I know that is light years ahead of many church goers that warm the bench. I wish you the best in your quest.

Isaac,

You trivialize the origin of the Bible. The Catholic Church didn't just assemble the documents and send it on its way. Biblical scholars and theologians worked, and continue to work, for 2000 years to find, not just the interpretation of each individual word, but the meaning of the message as a whole.

You are correct that the King James Bible is derived from the ancient scripts. However, when the Bible was translated by Roman Catholics long before the Protestant Reformation, there was no disunity in the Church. The King James version was commissioned to continue the disunity and thus was translated reflecting the non-Catholic beliefs (sola scriptura).

King James was the head of the Church of England, which was created by Henry VIII (self declared head of the Church of England) for the sake of getting divorced. How was the Church instituted? For what reason? These things matter. The Church of England was instituted by a king who wanted Church-sanctioned sin. Those who stood up to him were executed (St. Thomas More). King James continued in the tradition of Henry VIII by supporting the right to head of the Church of England.

Define divinely inspired. Your two sentences are confusing.

"I am that I am dictated the Bible with human hands as scribes. The entire Bible is 'divinely inspired'".

The phrase "dictated the Bible with human hands as scribes" and "divinely inspired" seem to contradict. The first seeming to infer that God "possessed" (for lack of a better word) the scribes and took over their hands to put it down on paper. The second phrase infers that the Bible is "inspired" by God.
Something to remember is that the Bible was not jotted down be every person involved. Adam and Eve did not keep journals. The Bible was passed on verbally for generations, until it was finally recorded on paper (scrolls, whathaveyou). Did the verbal tradition whittle away every single detail of the story? Undeniably. It is part of our nature. When finally transcribed, was the story exactly the same as the actual event. Doubtful. If God told the scribes exactly what to write leaving no interpretation of the story to the writers, and human nature had changed the verbal tradition, the written version and the verbal versions would be vastly different. So which one is true?

I do not trivialize the Bible in any form or fashion. I see you well indoctrinated in Catholicism :D I would like to know you thoughts on the ten lost tribes ??
This question of who wrote the Bible could go on for a long time and I feel very sure we would not agree. Matty I have some close friends that are Catholic and I do not wish to insult anyone that is Catholic. I am not Catholic but I am a Christ-man (Christian). The need for a religion is a man made need and a set of controls put in place by man. You think you need a Priest or Pope to tell you what the Bible says I do not. I can read if for myself and the idea of waiting to be read to is just what the "church" would want so they can play mind control. You know it really amazes me how many people go for that flock mentality. I am sure you are nice guy and a devout Catholic and I respect your person and your religion. The answers are coming soon and I will repeat I am NO MANS judge but I do not think you need a fancy building and another man to be a studied Christian.

Well, As much as I wanted to respond- Isaac pretty much said it here! The Catholics certainly have an agenda, mainly to justify themselves, in my opinion. The ritualistic chants and proceedures- To much Tradition of MAN can distort the word of GOD. But hey, if that helps you, it's better than nothing -I wonder.I also do not believe a church should decide what information I should recieve, and I wonder how much "information" is hidden away in the depths of the Vatican- because we are not "on THEIR level"or wouldn't fully understand . I believe ALL men are equal in GOD's eyes, and I'm sure JUDGEMENT will be swift at the pulpit for the "mis-informers"! Yes, That includes all religions. This is MY opinion, of course, I wasn't trying to jump on Catholics-I just think the group mentality is dangerous:pray:

Good post vixweb. I just watched a service at First Baptist Bossier www.firstbossier.com and I must say this preacher is nothing more than a stand up comedian. Not even good at that. He would mention the Bible and just keep rambling on about himself. This is the kind of person that has hijacked many Christian people. Judgment does start at the pulpit and our public officials too. The Word says a higher standard has been set for those who choose to be leaders. He is starving these good people that go to church because they are Christians and want to hear the truth of the Word.
This gives true Christianity a black eye. The great correction will come one day and these stuffed shirts in the pulpits will be guilty of murder ! yes murder of the eternal soul for all of those they mislead. Sounds harsh well I meant it to be. There is so much at stake here that many people have no idea just plugged in to the main frame and content to send their 10% and get the warm fuzzy for a hour each week. There are many people that study and some gifted teachers too and I think small study groups or just individual study is best.
Amos 8

11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

It is not just this church in Bossier it is many churches. I try to watch all different services that run on TV and I do not have a ax to grind with any particular one. Teachers TEACH the WORD I do not need the traditions of man blowing warm air in my ears I need the WORD and some one educated in the languages to lecture and increase my knowledge of the Letter our Father sent to us as a book of instruction on what it takes to be happy and how to have a close walk with our Father. Study to show yourself approved with a teacher blessed of God that rightly divides the Word. :pray::pray::pray:

I have to think some of the preachers are in the dark (so to speak) and not aware that they could be doing false preachings? Since that is their chosen vocation and they are paid to do so you would think and hope they have done their studies.:confused: But from what I've seen more and more have not and that is unfortunate!:(

Yet less than three months earlier, in a letter to a spiritual confidant, the Rev. Michael van der Peet, that is only now being made public, she wrote with weary familiarity of a different Christ, an absent one. "Jesus has a very special love for you," she assured Van der Peet. "[But] as for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great, that I look and do not see, — Listen and do not hear — the tongue moves [in prayer] but does not speak ... I want you to pray for me — that I let Him have [a] free hand."

Mother Teresa was a good woman that helped many people through hard times. She was only human and the idea that one human can make another human into a saint ? She did what we all should do and that is to help out our brothers and sisters when they are down. She did not ask to be a saint but instead just reached out to help others.

Mother Teresa
 

I just can't believe this happened. I just spent an hour on a reply to these articles and all the related posts, and then I was dumped from the server and it's all gone.
:(:mad::nono:
I don't know if I can remember all I wanted to say. Maybe I just said too much and they system couldn't handle it.

First off, let me just say this . . . "Crying, there's no crying in Baseball." Sorry, I liked that movie too. Although I don't agree with his polotics, I like Tom Hanks as an actor. He has certainly played some thought provoking roles.

Anyway . . . .

After reading several pages about Mother Teresa and her lack of faith, or losh of faith, or whatever you want to call it, I feel very sad for her.
I also feel like all the people in positons of trust in her life were not worthy of her trust. She asked her letters to be destroyed and they weren't. Letters to her "confessors" are now published? What happened to what is said in the confessional is sacred? And then one "advisor" tells her to "role-play" an imaginary conversation, and then it is used as "proof" that her faith had faltered.
Anyway, back to Mother Teresa herself (I'll try to be briefer this time). Is it possible that she simply wanted what she wanted and ignored or refused to listen to what God wanted for or from her and in turn was ignored? It is said about her (based on her letters) that the only interest she had in Jesus was the passion, the crucifixion, his death and dying on the cross; that she wanted to suffer as Christ did. Just because she didn't get "Jesus in her heart" as well, doesn't mean that she didn't get what she wanted. She repeatedly insisted on living in complete misery and in fact insisted that all of her helpers/followers live the same way. Why would she think that this was truely how God would want any of his children to live.
Please do not missunderstand me. I really believe that Mother Teresa was a great person and that she made a tremendous difference for the poor and downtrodden people of Caldutta. I also believe that her selflessness has been an example for others and lead to many people giving and helping more.
The point I'm trying to make is that perhaps she wasn't as "faithless" as this book is trying to make her out to be. I'm not sure that the author's reasoning for publishing all of these letters (along with him and many other people telling us what she was thinking) is as nobal as he makes it out to be.
I'm sorry, this version turned out to be much more sceptical than the first.
God Bless

No, I really do like Tom Hanks and that baseball movie!! Just because I don't "go to the mattresses" on every post, doesn't mean I'm a fence sitter...... In fact, I hate squirrels.... Tree rats i call them... :D

Welcome Huldah. Your avatar is of course the stunningly beautiful Joann Whaley from the movie "Willow"! Very nice!

I'm just guessin here, but maybe Mother Teresa figured that as long as there were people sufferin in abject poverty, she herself should be poor also, so as to better understand the misery of their plight.

Just think, if Mother Teresa, Ghandi, and Billy Graham all end up in Hell, then we're all screwed...especially LateNight!:eek: Thats why I recently got LN a book entitled "Chicken Soup for LateNight's Soul", because I happen to know for a fact that LateNight struggles with his faith, and he could sure use some of dat! Nope, no thanks be necessary...I just does what I can to helps da peoples!:pray:

It is a good thing when a teacher and man or woman of God does not do it for the financial gain. This shows conviction and not greed. Mother Teresa did help many poor people but to be living with nothing by choice is not that smart of a choice. She could have the basic things she needs in life and be in a better position to help others and show that hard work and prayers bring blessings to those that work. Church dogma is poison and the small study groups that do not get paid or the individual that studies deep will be the ones to learn the Word. This is a test only a test :pray:

I received this email this morning and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Ike ;)

Rick Warren (REMEMBER HE WROTE "PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE")

You will enjoy the new insights that Rick Warren has, with his wife now having cancer and him having "wealth" from the book sales. This is an absolutely incredible short interview with Rick Warren,

"Purpose Driven Life " author and pastor of Saddleback Church in California.

In the interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said:

People ask me, What is the purpose of life? And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven.

One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body-- but not the end of me.

I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act - the dress rehearsal. God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity.

We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn't going to make sense.

Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you're just coming out of one, or you're getting ready to go into another one.

The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort.

God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy.

We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that's not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness.

This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife, Kay, getting cancer.

I used to think that life was hills and valleys - you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don't believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it's kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life.

No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on.

And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good you can thank God for.

You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems.

If you focus on your problems, you're going into self-centeredness,"which is my problem, my issues, my pain." But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.

We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her.

It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people.

You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life.

Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy.

It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don't think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease.

So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72

First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases.

Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church.

Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.

Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.

We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity?

Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God's purposes (for my life)?

When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don't get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better. God didn't put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He's more interested in what I am than what I do.
That's why we're called human beings, not human doings.

Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD

Isaac, you know nothing of the Catholic Church, traditions, "agendas", true Christianity. You sound like you've seen the DaVinci Code a few dozen time too many. You completely dodged the issues I addressed, and made up a story about the Church and "mind control". What mind control and agendas does the Church have? The Catholic Church is just about the only church that holds a steady position regardless of secular society. Abortion is wrong, homosexual acts are wrong, premarital sex is wrong, women in the priesthood has no theological basis. These are things which our society and other non-Catholic denominations have widely embraced, yet the Catholic Church has not wavered.

The traditions in the Mass are designed in such a way that promotes worldwide unity. You can walk into any Catholic Church in the world and have basically the same Mass. Not so for any other Christian denomination.

Finally, the teachings of Christ through the Catholic Church (founded by Christ himself) teach on the basis of reason and logic. We don't get a little book that says "this is wrong, this is right, end of story." There are full detailed explanations with biblical references to support. I encourage you to research more deeply, the truth about the Catholic Church.

That can be frustrating.. if when you log in, if you check the little box that says "remember me?", it won't automatically log you off after some inactivity. depending on your situation, security wise, you might want to "log off" when you are done.

I can agree with some of what you posted. Have your ever read about Debra or Huldah ? What about Tehpi or Scotia ? You are right about being able to walk in any Catholic Church and get the same reading or teaching as you may any week of the year. Matty I am not saying people that practice Catholicism are not Christian ! I have no right to judge a soul. I find the
DaVinci Code to be flawed in a major way FYI ! You can be Catholic or any other "denomination" and still be my friend. The fact that Christianity is a reality and not a religion or denomination is my point. Man wanted a king and he got one Saul and from there things went down hill. Traditions of man that cover the truth about the Bible are wrong !!!

Matty I have some questions regarding Catholics and I sincerely would like to know the answers behind them. I'm not being callous.
1. Why is it almost impossible to get a divorce? Why does it have to be called an annullment as if it never happened when there is a divorce?
2. Why is there confession of your innermost secrets when you can go directly to our Father without anyone else hearing about it?
3. Why can only Catholics take Holy communion in the Catholic church?
These are some of the things that I truly don't understand!
:peace:Pokie

I'd like to know why nuns, when asked about their views on evolution, respond by hitting you with a Bible.

:hurt:

Matty-you are quick to point out that the catholic church was started by CHRIST himself, however, you completely miss even THATpoint. Was he walking down the ailse swinging insense? How about wearing the pointy hat? THESE are the kinds of traditions that distract from what JESUS taught.
Agendas? Mind control? Their own relevance is the agenda- "you can't get to heaven but through Catholosism"? You can't get to heaven except through JESUS! That is to say, When you go to confession- you tell the priest your sins and HE gives you your"punishment". I gotta tell ya matty- You don't need a priest for that. If you need forgiveness, talk to GOD! I think if JESUS walked into a "mass", he would tell you to spend your time studying HIS example and the WORD OF GOD-
Again, let me say that Catholics are NOT the only ones with these types of issues. But It makes a great example of the things that CHRISTIANS have become "distracted" by. Of course, we can all get along....this is just a discussion.:peace:

Good post vixweb and Pokie !! I hope others that read this thread will pick up their Bible if they choose and read for themselves the Word and see just how quick they can learn for themselves. I am real surprised Tbelle has not posted to this thread :confused::confused: I guess she is busy :D

Texasbelle has been in Colorado. Just got back and my oh my what a discussion you have all been having. Let me tell you it was great seeing only what God himself created.

I don't know what I can add to this discussion all of my thoughts on this have been been pretty much laid out there already by Isaac, Pokie, Huldah, and Vixweb. It 's interesting to me that the word of God is so very distinctly clear but yet churches and pastors get so caught up in symbols, traditions, money, etc. and forget to focus on the very simple word. And to me it' just that simple the Bible. Study it, learn it , teach it, and apply it.

Pocahontas has some questions about Catholicism, so here are the answers. (For further reading, "Catholic Answers" www.Catholic.com is a reliable resource for Catholic teaching.

Matty I have some questions regarding Catholics and I sincerely would like to know the answers behind them. I'm not being callous.
1. Why is it almost impossible to get a divorce? Why does it have to be called an annulment as if it never happened when there is a divorce?
2. Why is there confession of your innermost secrets when you can go directly to our Father without anyone else hearing about it?
3. Why can only Catholics take Holy communion in the Catholic church?

1. "Why is it almost impossible to get a divorce? Why does it have to be called an annulment as if it never happened when there is a divorce?" Divorce has become something very popular in the last 40 years or so, and is something obtainable regardless of the Church. However, the Church has was is called an annulment, which is a lengthy investigation to determine if the couple married by their own free will, psychological concerns, etc.. Basically, the tribunal looks to see if there was ever a valid marriage in the first place.

Biblically speaking, a divorced person who remarries is committing adultery (Matthew 19:9 "Whoever divorces his wife except for fornication and marries another woman commits adultery.") When an annulment is granted, basically the Church tribunal says the marriage was invalid from the get-go. An example to illustrate this concept.

A friend of mine was getting married. Part of the marriage conditions in the Catholic Church are that the couple must be here of their own free will, have the desire to get married to each other, the usual. My friend and her husband said yes to all. Many years later, they were divorced and going through the annulment process, when my friend's husband confessed he lied and claimed that he didn't really want to get married in the first place.

This, combined with other factors of the time of marriage, are reason to declare the marriage was never valid in the first place.

2. "Why is there confession of your innermost secrets when you can go directly to our Father without anyone else hearing about it?" This is a great question! Confession was something instituted by Christ after his resurrection as found in the Gospels of Matthew and John (as found below).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

The above paragraphs follow the concept of "Apostolic Succession", a core belief of the Catholic Church.

A secondary product of confession is the humbling of one's self to tell those innermost secrets. In my personal experience, the sins are not just in my head, but they are now out on the table, in front of the priest, who is not there to condemn you, but to serve as Christ's representative in the forgiveness and absolving of sins(see "apostolic succession").

3. "Why can only Catholics take Holy communion in the Catholic church?" Another great question! Catholics believe that Holy Communion is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ in what is called "The Eucharist", and that God grants special graces through the reception of the Eucharist.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever" (John 6:53–58).

This is a constant bone of contention between Catholics and Protestants, but that is another thread for another day. My goal is simply educating on the belief of the Catholic Church.

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: "For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died" (1 Cor. 11:29–30).

Vixweb, you are correct in your assertion that Christ did not institute things like "pointy hats" or "swinging incense". The pomp and circumstance of the Mass are human inventions, all with meaning, and all intended to enhance our worship of God. The climax of our worship at Mass is the Eucharist (see above) which was instituted by Christ himself (see above and John 6:53-58). I encourage you to read this discussion from Catholic Answers regarding the concept of "no salvation outside of the Catholic Church." It may clear up some of your misconceptions.

Wow...:freaky: Nothing against Catholics or Christians of any kind, but I am SO glad none of this applies to me. Things are so much simpler and natural in my tradition.

Church dogma is like a basket over a candle. You pay for your "annulment" depending on how much you make. To say you were never married is laughable at very best :laugh: You took the vow and got the license and then "consummated" it and you want to go back and say it never happened ? The Catholic Church is a state run church from Rome. It is the rituals that are traditions of man and skew the truth. Reading in monotone sort of chant and swinging smoke around and then holy water ?? Christ is not good enough to hear my prayers and confessions ???? Matty you sound as hard wired into the system as you can get.

Historical note about the defeat of the Spanish Armada

Attachment 1436

The Spanish Armada was a fleet assembled and dispatched by King Phillip II of Spain in attempt to invade England in 1588. His attempt was unsuccessful. Queen Elizabeth I of England held the defeat of the armada as one of her greatest achievements, assisting the decline of the Spanish Empire. The armada had a mission of both political and religious aims. King Phillip, the leader of the Roman Catholic Spain, was not able to stop a revolt in of his Protestant subjects in the Netherlands, a revolt which began in 1566, aided by Protestant England. By 1586, Phillip had decided that he could not defeat the Dutch until he had defeated England first. Long time religious rivalry between Spain and England was hoped to be resolved by King Phillip in the dethroning of Queen Elizabeth, reconverting England to Catholicism. The plan for conquering had begun. This plan consisted of the coordination of a fleet to sail from Spain and an army from the Netherlands to create a simultaneous invasion of England. His force of 130 ships and more than 30,000 men was to be led by Alonso Peréz Guzmán, duke of Medina- Sidonia. England was aware of the Spanish plans, attacking it at Cádiz, Spain in 1587, succeeding in delaying it for a year. By July of 1588, the armada was spotted off the coast of England on July 29. Lord Charles Howard intercepted it with a larger English fleet near Plymouth, and for the next week made small attacks on the Spanish in battles off of Plymouth, Portland Bill, and the Isle of Wight. Unable to break the Spanish Armada, they waited for their chance at a big blow. The opportunity finally arrived when the armada anchored near Calais, France, hoping to join troops scheduled to sail from the Netherlands. Ingeniously, Howard ordered ships set on fire to be sent against the armada, producing a panic that broke the Spanish formation. In the ensuing battle of Gravelines, on August 8, the Spanish were defeated by England and the armada sailed home with remaining ships that were heavily damaged to Spain; 67 of the original 130 ships reached Spain, most in poor condition.

The War however between England and Spain lasted until 1604, despite the defeat of the Spanish Armada. Yet the defeat brought about English nationalism, securing Protestantism as England’s state religion. In contrast, for Spain it was a humiliating defeat, nearly destroying the national treasury of Spain.

My point is "L" who is our Father will never let the traditions of man and the mind game that comes with it to prevail at the end of the day !! This goes for Evangelicals too. They just have a different dog and pony show. Christianity is just that ! Christianity and no one has a corner on the market except for Christ Himself ! I take Communion when I am by myself and use olive oil as in James chapter 5 ! I think it is the most personal and private thing I do. I have no problem at all doing it in a large group but it is still very personal and is showing obedience to God not to any man.

Matty I appreciate your detailed responses to my questions. I still am left with a feeling that if it's not the Catholic way it's the wrong way...which to me I find hypocritical. Ex. using words like "the tribunal" decides this and that sounds like they (the Catholic congregation) have more authority than Christ??:confused: But again you are describing the Catholic faith as you stated. We can agree to disagree I suppose. That is what forums are about. :peace:

Did you go to Catholic school, Anime? I find that surprising!

Yeah I hate it when that happens.. Sometimes when I spend a long time on a post, I compose it in Word and paste it then submit. Then if things don't work out, I still have it in Word.

But even when I don't do that, I will do a ctrl-A (Select All) and a ctrl-C (Copy to clipboard) so if things don't work out, I can paste it and try again. Only on long posts though.

No, I didn't. No way!

Actually, it was a friend of mine back years ago who did go to Catholic school. He left Catholism after a nun bashed him in the head with a Bible over a curious question about evolution. He felt it was awfully unChristian to be so violent with a kid over something so small.

Amen!

Unfortunately I have a lot of problems with the Catholic Church. And fortunately for all of you, I don't intend on shareing them all here.
I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic Church. I went to a Catholic school. I went to mass A LOT. It became clear to me that for many Catholics "Sacred Tradition" is more important than the Word of God. I could litterally go on for hours, but I promise you I won't.
I have to start with the amission that I am far from perfect, and won't even pretend that I am close.
You are each free to choose how you will love and follow our Heavenly Father, and so am I. I choose to do my best to follow God's plan, but to do that I must learn what his plan is. To do that I read and study His Word. I don't claim to say that I can or want to do that on my own. There are plenty of useful tools out there that help. . . . The Smith's Bible Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of The Bible. My mother once told me, "Catholic Priests have interpreted the bible for us for 2000 years, it is not our place to question that." I love my mother very much, but God the Father told us "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man." Jer 17:5.
So, now I say that I will not tell any Christian "you will go to hell if you do not believe as I do." As a very well studied Bible Scholor that I study with says, "Each of us have to sail our own ship." When we face our Father for our final judgment, we will face Him alone. No priest or pastor or reverand or preacher will be standing there with us. So I guess I will decide for myself how I will love my Father, and I will do my best to respect everyone elses personal choice in the matter.
Alleluia (Praise be to God)!

What a great tip. Thanks. If I write my post in word first, I can take all the time I want and then just cut and paste. Thanks
:):):):):):):):)