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Isaac-Saxxon 05-03-2007 10:39 AM

Texas governor stirs controversy
 
Texas Gov. Rick Perry says licensed Texans should be able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere. :clap: :clap: :clap:
http://www.ktbs.com/viewnews.cfm?new...weapons%20idea

purpahurl 05-03-2007 12:47 PM

Guns
 
Why not. These aren't going to be the people causing trouble anyway, but they can sure stop it! "Those who are willing to give up their guns to make plows will soon be plowing for those who did not"

Isaac-Saxxon 05-03-2007 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purpahurl
Why not. These aren't going to be the people causing trouble anyway, but they can sure stop it! "Those who are willing to give up their guns to make plows will soon be plowing for those who did not"

I know I would think twice about pulling my gun out if I thought everyone else around me had one too :eek:

LateNight 05-03-2007 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
I know I would think twice about pulling my gun out if I thought everyone else around me had one too :eek:

that's an interesting point.. I saw an editorial cartoon on that the other day. basically it was like, someone yelled "Gun!" and then EVERYONE pulled out their guns and started shooting.. but didn't know who it was they were supposed to be shooting at....

now maybe that's not realistic ? or maybe it is.. in a perfect world, everyone could just open up on the idiot who started shooting in the first place :)

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 03:49 PM

Well you guys are basically ignoring history when you make these suggestions.

If you recall, once upon a time it was fairly common for men to openly carry firearms.....why do you think every civilized nation in the world now has laws against this type of behavior?

Here's a hint, it's not because the crime rate went down.....

LateNight 05-03-2007 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Well you guys are basically ignoring history when you make these suggestions.

If you recall, once upon a time it was fairly common for men to openly carry firearms.....why do you think every civilized nation in the world now has laws against this type of behavior?

Here's a hint, it's not because the crime rate went down.....

Don't take my comment the wrong way.. it's not that I'm against the idea at all.. If there had been some other folks carrying legal firearms around at Virginia Tech, fewer lives could have been lost. If that idiot could have been gunned down... I just thought it was an interesting point.

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateNight
Don't take my comment the wrong way.. it's not that I'm against the idea at all.. If there had been some other folks carrying legal firearms around at Virginia Tech, fewer lives could have been lost. If that idiot could have been gunned down... I just thought it was an interesting point.


Yeah, the problem is that when everyone carried a gun, lot's of people got shot for stupid **** like snoring to loud, not just mass murder.

How can you say fewer lives would have been lost when only 1 man had a gun as opposed to 100 people having a gun, when our own nations history tells the exact opposite story?

joepole 05-03-2007 04:52 PM

>why do you think every civilized nation in the world now has laws against this type of behavior

Correct or not, that's not a legit line of reasoning, "Everybody else is doing it" means nothing. Almost every civilized nation in the world has socialized medicine, as well.

joepole 05-03-2007 04:56 PM

>How can you say fewer lives would have been lost when only 1 man had a gun as opposed to 100 people having a gun, when our own nations history tells the exact opposite story?

Because it's a reasonable assumption that none of the other likely-to-be-armed students wanted to go on a murderous rampage and it's a logical conclusion that if any other student had killed Cho before he could finish fewer lives would have been lost.

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole
>why do you think every civilized nation in the world now has laws against this type of behavior

Correct or not, that's not a legit line of reasoning, "Everybody else is doing it" means nothing. Almost every civilized nation in the world has socialized medicine, as well.


If it's not a legit line of reasoning, why do you think I'm trying to say that?

More people with guns always equals more murders, not less. That's why most nations have some type of gun laws, not because they want to be like their neighbor!?!?!?!?!?

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole
>How can you say fewer lives would have been lost when only 1 man had a gun as opposed to 100 people having a gun, when our own nations history tells the exact opposite story?

Because it's a reasonable assumption that none of the other likely-to-be-armed students wanted to go on a murderous rampage and it's a logical conclusion that if any other student had killed Cho before he could finish fewer lives would have been lost.


Homicide is the 14th leading cause of death in America today.
Accident is the 3rd leading cause of death, of the accident category, firearm accidents are the 8th leading cause of death.

....and your contention is because there are NOT enough guns on the street.

I'm glad you admitted this was total assumption....I can't find death stats for the 1800's when most men carried a firearm, but I'll be sure to let you knwo when I do;)

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 06:10 PM

WRONG WRONG WRONG
In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gunban, violent crime has INCREASED in the country. WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:
.Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
.Assaults are up 8.6 percent
.Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent
.In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent
.In the 25 years BEFORE the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily
.There has been a dramatic increase in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly

The violent crime stats are EVEN WORSE in Great Britain!
__________________

The above is an excerpt from an earlier post of mine where I was replyin to someone else's opinion that "fewer guns equals fewer deaths". It just doesnt work that way...period...end of story! Theres a school in Utah I think where the students with concealed carry permits are encouraged to wear their guns on campus, so lets just have a little hypothetical scenario here. Ok, lets say a "Cho" type murderous a$$hole shows up one at school one mornin and starts shootin people...with me so far? Ya followin me so far? Ok, "Cho" pulls his gun and gets off a few shots and kills a few of his poor, hapless classmates and instructors...but other students and instructors draw their own weapons and tuck "Cho" in for a dirtnap! Total body count? Four dead, includin the aforementioned murderous a$$hole...as opposed to, say, 30 or 50 dead...maybe even more.

The sad truth is that when one of these nuts snaps and decides to go on a shootin spree, be it on a school campus, the post office, your local Luby's cafeteria, or where ever, everyone who is NOT armed is basically just the proverbial "fish in the barrel", whose options amount to hidin under a table, playin dead, beggin the crazy bastard not to shoot em, or runnin and gettin shot in the back! These nutcases KNOW that their victims cant fight back, which is why they can kill so many of them. Different ballgame altogether when there are citizens carryin lawfully concealed guns. Nice try Brain, but you're full of schit! Ya might try doin some research first next time.

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 06:59 PM

Hey that's great....how about stats for this country?

BTW, I did NOT say fewer guns equals fewer deaths, I said MORE guns DOES NOT equal fewer deaths.

Now check out this "hypothetical" scenario. Everytime someone gets pissed off they reach for their guns....you know, like every western story you've ever heard.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Hey that's great....how about stats for this country?

BTW, I did NOT say fewer guns equals fewer deaths, I said MORE guns DOES NOT equal fewer deaths.

Now check out this "hypothetical" scenario. Everytime someone gets pissed off they reach for their guns....you know, like every western story you've ever heard.


On the contrary, more guns do indeed equal fewer deaths. And America's crime rates, violent or otherwise, have been steadily dropping since concealed weapons carry by licensed citizens, along with adoption of the "Castle Doctrine" by the states have become more prevalent. People who are licensed to carry concealed weapons must meet the criteria. Those citizens understand that carrying a concealed weapon means they have a much greater responsibility to conduct themselves with restraint, and draw and use their guns ONLY when they or someone else is threatened with death or grave bodily harm, NOT because they get "pissed off". Those who do NOT understand this likely dont meet the licensing criteria anyway.

LateNight 05-03-2007 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Now check out this "hypothetical" scenario. Everytime someone gets pissed off they reach for their guns....you know, like every western story you've ever heard.

more or less guns does not change this scenario.. this happens now as it is.. idiot gets pissed, idiot goes home gets his gun and shoots someone.
If idiot doesn't have a gun, he'll find another way.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 07:43 PM

BTW, I'm a Louisiana resident in possession of a concealed weapons permit issued by the State of Florida, Department of Agriculture, which is good for 5 years. As of January 5th of 07, I can carry a concealed weapon in 30 states, Kansas being the latest, all of which have reciprocity agreements with Florida.

LateNight 05-03-2007 07:58 PM

but Al, I thought you were a terrible shot, and worked better closer in ? ;)


LOL

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateNight
but Al, I thought you were a terrible shot, and worked better closer in ? ;)


LOL

LOL, well, on my HBO series, thats the case...however, in real life, I'm a fair shot!:D

scarlett 05-03-2007 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateNight
but Al, I thought you were a terrible shot, and worked better closer in ? ;)


LOL

hahahahah

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
On the contrary, more guns do indeed equal fewer deaths. And America's crime rates, violent or otherwise, have been steadily dropping since concealed weapons carry by licensed citizens, along with adoption of the "Castle Doctrine" by the states have become more prevalent. People who are licensed to carry concealed weapons must meet the criteria. Those citizens understand that carrying a concealed weapon means they have a much greater responsibility to conduct themselves with restraint, and draw and use their guns ONLY when they or someone else is threatened with death or grave bodily harm, NOT because they get "pissed off". Those who do NOT understand this likely dont meet the licensing criteria anyway.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice:
Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993, then slightly increased in 2005.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance.htm#Crime

....and I'm sure the stats for 2006 will reflect the trend is continuing to rise....stay tuned for more details

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
According to the U.S. Department of Justice:
Firearm-related crime has plummeted since 1993, then slightly increased in 2005.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance.htm#Crime

....and I'm sure the stats for 2006 will reflect the trend is continuing to rise....stay tuned for more details



70 Million More Guns…38% Less Violent Crime

Friday, September 22, 2006

Data released by the FBI on Monday showed that in 2005, the nation’s total violent crime rate was 38% lower than in 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high. Rates of the individual categories of violent crime were also much lower in 2005 than in 1991. Murder was 43% lower, rape 25% lower, robbery 48% lower, and aggravated assault 33% lower. The FBI’s report came on the heels of a Bureau of Justice Statistics crime survey that found that violent crime was lower in 2005 than anytime in the survey’s 32-year history.

Defying the anti-gunners’ claim that more guns means more crime, from 1991-2005 the number of privately owned guns increased by more than 70 million.

The news media often characterize violent crime as a primarily gun-oriented problem, but the FBI’s report showed that only one in every four violent crimes in 2005 was committed with a gun. In 2005, as in previous years, most violent crimes were robberies and aggravated assaults, most of which were committed with knives or bare hands.

Recently, anti-gun politicians and activists have intensified their rhetoric over the “lack” of bans on handguns, so-called “assault weapons”, and .50-caliber rifles; gun registration, gun owner licensing, and mandatory background checks on sales of guns between friends and family members; and limits on the frequency of gun purchases, all of which they say are necessary to reduce the nation’s murder rate. But for the last seven years, the murder rate has been steady¾in the 5.5-5.7 per 100,000 population range¾at all times lower than anytime since the mid-1960s. In 2005, for example, the murder rate was 5.6.

Naturally, anti-gunners will downplay the downward trend in violent crime since 1991, and focus on the fact that the FBI’s report showed a 1% increase in total violent crime, and a 2% increase in murder in 2005, compared to 2004. But those changes are miniscule, compared to the huge decrease in crime over the last 14 years.

The FBI’s report once again confirmed that violent crime rates are lower in states with Right-to-Carry (RTC) laws. In 2005, RTC states had, on average, 22% lower total violent crime, 30% less murder, 46% lower robbery, and 12% lower aggravated assault rates, compared to the rest of the country.

As usual, Washington, D.C., which leads the nation in anti-gun laws, led the nation in murder, with a rate six times higher than the rest of the country. Neighboring Maryland, where gun control advocates have been particularly active recently, once again had the highest robbery rate among the states, but also tied for the unenviable distinction of “first place” in murder among the states. However, despite Maryland’s high crime counts, CeaseFire Maryland, the local Brady Campaign affiliate that recently released a paper demanding an “assault weapon” ban, was unable to point to any crimes in the state involving such a gun.

The FBI’s report must have displeased New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg (R). Despite the mayor’s recent posturing on the gun issue, and his self-laudatory comments about fighting crime, the Big Apple’s murder rate was more than double that of the rest of the state. Similarly, in Philadelphia, where anti-gun politicians are calling for a statewide one-gun-a-month law, the murder rate was more than seven times higher than the rest of Pennsylvania.

Adding to the reasons why voters should “Dump Doyle” in Wisconsin’s upcoming gubernatorial election, their state had the greatest total violent crime rate increase (15.1%) between 2004-2005. Murder was up 25.2%; robbery up 11.2%; and aggravated assault up 20.2%. Wisconsin is one of only two states that prohibits Right-to-Carry entirely, but in 2005, 11 of the 12 states that had the greatest decreases in total violent crime, and 12 of the 14 states with the greatest decreases in murder were Right-to-Carry states. The seven states with the lowest total violent crime rates in 2005, and 11 of the 12 states that had the lowest murder rates, were Right-to-Carry states.

Last, but not least, is good news from Florida, the state that during the last 20 years has been most often attacked by anti-gunners, for (among other reasons) setting the Right-to-Carry and “Castle Doctrine” movements in motion. In 2005, Florida recorded a murder rate 13% lower than the rate for the rest of the country (4.96 per 100,000, vs. 5.67 for the rest of the country). For the record, Florida’s 2005 murder rate was 58% lower than it was in 1986, the last year before the state’s landmark Right-to-Carry law took effect.





Copyright 2007, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy


The above puts the question to rest once and for all. Again Brain, nice try, but no cigar! Now, if anyone else wants to try recklessly spinning the statistics, be my guest!

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 10:02 PM

Reckless spinning the stastics?

I post a link to a government website and quote it verbatim while your rebuttal is from the NRA and I am spinning the data?

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 10:06 PM

For instance. You are comparing the 2005 murder rate to the all time high in 1991 to emphasis the difference instead of showing the, albeit slight, but increase in firearm-related crime from 2004-2005.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/...nonfatalrt.gif

rhertz 05-03-2007 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
According to the U.S. Department of Justice....and I'm sure the stats for 2006 will reflect the trend is continuing to rise....stay tuned for more details

What were the stat's in the 1700's and 1800's when "the folks" all toted guns? In comparison to 2007 with ever increasing "gun control"? Anyone know?

BrainSmashR 05-03-2007 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
What were the stat's in the 1700's and 1800's when "the folks" all toted guns? In comparison to 2007 with ever increasing "gun control"? Anyone know?


I have been unsuccessful in finding that information, however I did find this graph.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.gif
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/guncrime.htm

As much as I hate to say it, it looks like Bill Clinton and his 3 Strikes rule may be the reason for the sharp decline in crimes committed with firearms.

Isabella 05-03-2007 10:41 PM

Personally, I think the governor is wrong. Don't shoot me Al. ;) I have to admit, I agree with Brain. :eek:

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Reckless spinning the stastics?

I post a link to a government website and quote it verbatim while your rebuttal is from the NRA and I am spinning the data?

THATS RIGHT, spinnin the goddamned data! What, ya thought nobody would notice? Who the hell do ya think you're foolin? Ya didnt tell the whole story, did ya? Hell no, because that would have the opposite effect on what you're trying to achieve here, namely an alarmist knee-jerk reaction aimed at blamin guns for that "slight increase". None of the data ya cited even ATTEMPTS to lay the blame where ya obviously want it laid. And where the hell do ya think the NRA got IT'S data?...which, by the way, I CHALLENGE you to disprove! Believe me, ya cant. In short, ya tried to spin the stats on the sly, then when ya got caught, ya tried to deny it, and nobody's buyin it! Unfortunately for you, your bullschit Bradyesque tactics only work on the gullible and the stupid, neither of which you'll find here on this forum, save for one or two exceptions. You're as bad as Rosie, or Soros or Bloomberg...keep pullin stunts like this and maybe they'll give ya a commendation! Maybe Bloomberg'll make ya one of his toadies! Nah, thats not ambitious enough for ya...lets dream bigger, you aspire to MUCH more, dontcha? Hell, maybe Rosie'll let ya shave the hair on her back or pop the zits on her fat (__)(__)...would ya like that? I think ya would! Well you'll have to do better than this, though I get the feelin this is your best. Either paint the whole phukin picture the way it really is or move to California or New York..or better yet, Australia or Britian. Ive got no patience for people like you.

Isabella 05-03-2007 10:46 PM

Al, have you thought about the innocent children that find their parent's gun and start playing with it and shoot themselves or someone else? I was shot when I was a child. Another child visiting our camp found a gun, shot it not knowing any better and the bullet went through the wall and hit me in the stomach.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Al, have you thought about the innocent children that find their parent's gun and start playing with it and shoot themselves or someone else? I was shot when I was a child. Another child visiting our camp found a gun, shot it not knowing any better and the bullet went through the wall and hit me in the stomach.

Isabella, dont blame the gun for parental failure. Obviously, guns can be dangerous and deadly in the hands of a child who isnt educated about the proper handling of them. Education should start early, and all guns should be securely stored where young children cant get their little hands on them.

Isabella 05-03-2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Isabella, dont blame the gun for parental failure. Obviously, guns can be dangerous and deadly in the hands of a child who isnt educated about the proper handling of them. Education should start early, and all guns should be securely stored where young children cant get their little hands on them.

Al, where do you keep your gun in your vehicle, home, and work? This child was about 4 years old or younger and went into a room he was not allowed, when the grownups were not looking. The gun was thought to be unloaded, too. That was always my mother's rule before bringing a gun inside.

Isabella 05-03-2007 11:02 PM

You know accidents happen no matter how careful you are. My family has always had guns and no one feels the way I do. We were all taught gun safety at a very young age. The child who shot me was a visitor who knew nothing about guns. My husband's grandfather was killed in a hunting accident. A lady was shot at our hunting lease by accident by a visitor's gun that went off when he got his gun out of his truck.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Al, where do you keep your gun in your vehicle, home, and work? This child was about 4 years old or younger and went into a room he was not allowed, when the grownups were not looking. The gun was thought to be unloaded, too. That was always my mother's rule before bringing a gun inside.

All of our guns are stored in a locked steel security cabinet. We dont have any young children in our home, but when the grandkids come over I always make sure there are no guns left lyin around...they all go into the locker. And your mom's rule is perfectly sound, though I should point out that in the event that the gun will be needed in an emergency, you'd damn sure better be able to access the ammunition and load it quickly. Accidents happen when somebody drops the ball and fails to ascertain whether a gun is loaded. It just goes with the territory. If you're gonna have guns, you'd better make a habit of checkin them before ya handle em. If there are young children around, you'd better start educating them early on about gun safety, and you'd better insure that the guns are stored in such a way that they cant be accessed by anyone that cant be trusted to safely handle em.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 11:10 PM

Look, guns are inherently dangerous. Theres no disputin that, ok? But its no different than teaching children not to grab pots and pans off the stove top and potentially scaldin themselves. Same thing with fire and matches. Same thing with sharp knives, or lawn mowers, or bathtubs, or electrical wall outlets, or any number of things that can cause injury if not handled properly. Education, education, education...gun safety is contingent on gun education. The importance of it cant be stressed enough.

Isabella 05-03-2007 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Look, guns are inherently dangerous. Theres no disputin this, ok? Its no different than teaching children not to grab pots and pans off the stove top and potentially scaldin themselves. Same thing with fire and matches. Same thing with sharp knives, or lawn mowers, or any number of things that can cause injury if not handled properly. Education, education, education...gun safety is contingent on gun education. The importance of it cant be stressed enough.

I agree! I hate guns with a passion!

If you still could, I bet you would give me a negative for this post. ;)

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
I agree! I hate guns with a passion!

If you still could, I bet you would give me a negative for this post. ;)

Isabella, ya have the right to hate guns with a passion, and ya have the right to not have any in your home. Its a free country.

As important as the issue is to me, I recognize that there will always be those who dont share my opinions, and thats ok. I've never given points to anyone, for anything, negative or otherwise. Just ask the staff.

Isabella 05-03-2007 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Isabella, ya have the right to hate guns with a passion, and ya have the right to not have any in your home. Its a free country.

As important as the issue is to me, I recognize that there will always be those who dont share my opinions, and thats ok. I've never given points to anyone, for anything, negative or otherwise. Just ask the staff.

Al, I was just teasing about the points. I don't care. You are right, this is a free country and you have the right to feel the way you do about guns. I guess you can say, we agree to disagree about this matter.

Al Swearengen 05-03-2007 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Al, I was just teasing about the points. I don't care. You are right, this is a free country and you have the right to feel the way you do about guns. I guess you can say, we agree to disagree about this matter.

And thats ok sweety. Gun accidents DO happen, and if there are no guns in your household, theres a damn good chance there'll be no gun accidents. But Isabella, if ya dont have any guns in your home, I sure hope your family never has to suffer a home invasion, because you can bet the intruders will have them (guns)... And if that DOES happen, I hope that either the police respond in time or the thugs will be merciful.

Isabella 05-04-2007 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
And thats ok sweety. Gun accidents DO happen, and if there are no guns in your household, theres a damn good chance there'll be no gun accidents. But Isabella, if ya dont have any guns in your home, I sure hope your family never has to suffer a home invasion, because you can bet the intruders will have them (guns)... And if that DOES happen, I hope that either the police respond in time or the thugs will be merciful.

Al, we do have guns in my home. Not my choice, but I have a husband and son who hunt. If someone broke into our home, it would be impossible to get the guns out quick enough to help, because they are locked up and unloaded. I have a pistol my dad gave me for protection years ago, but it is not where I can get to it. When I had children I made sure they could not get to any of the guns we have.

Al Swearengen 05-04-2007 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Al, we do have guns in my home. Not my choice, but I have a husband and son who hunt. If someone broke into our home, it would be impossible to get the guns out quick enough to help, because they are locked up and unloaded. I have a pistol my dad gave me for protection years ago, but it is not where I can get to it. When I had children I made sure they could not get to any of the guns we have.


Special small, lockable "safes" can be purchased...some of them have a keypad requirin the correct combination to open, others require keys. It would be wise to purchase one of these and keep a loaded handgun in it. Everyone in your home, excludin the youngsters, should know the combination or know where the key is hidden. This is a good compromise...the gun is unaccessible to the unauthorized, but ready to use in just a few steps should the need arise. Dont count on the police to save your bacon, Isabella. You owe it to your family's safety to be prepared for the worst. But it sounds to me as if you've already resigned yourself and your family to victimhood, and thats a damn shame.

BrainSmashR 05-04-2007 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
THATS RIGHT, spinnin the goddamned data! What, ya thought nobody would notice? Who the hell do ya think you're foolin? Ya didnt tell the whole story, did ya? Hell no, because that would have the opposite effect on what you're trying to achieve here, namely an alarmist knee-jerk reaction aimed at blamin guns for that "slight increase". None of the data ya cited even ATTEMPTS to lay the blame where ya obviously want it laid. And where the hell do ya think the NRA got IT'S data?...which, by the way, I CHALLENGE you to disprove! Believe me, ya cant. In short, ya tried to spin the stats on the sly, then when ya got caught, ya tried to deny it, and nobody's buyin it! Unfortunately for you, your bullschit Bradyesque tactics only work on the gullible and the stupid, neither of which you'll find here on this forum, save for one or two exceptions. You're as bad as Rosie, or Soros or Bloomberg...keep pullin stunts like this and maybe they'll give ya a commendation! Maybe Bloomberg'll make ya one of his toadies! Nah, thats not ambitious enough for ya...lets dream bigger, you aspire to MUCH more, dontcha? Hell, maybe Rosie'll let ya shave the hair on her back or pop the zits on her fat (__)(__)...would ya like that? I think ya would! Well you'll have to do better than this, though I get the feelin this is your best. Either paint the whole phukin picture the way it really is or move to California or New York..or better yet, Australia or Britian. Ive got no patience for people like you.


What I did was cut and paste a direct quote word for word from the Department of Justice AND provided graphical data to support those quotes while you have done nothing more than post the propaganda of a special interest group, namely the NRA.

and personally, I don't give a **** what some gun toting zealot thinks about that. We have gun laws BECAUSE of people like you, not in spite of them.


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