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piemaker720 07-24-2007 09:00 AM

Minimum Wages Goes Up Today
 
http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/23/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Quote:

Minimum wage boost first in 10 years
Wage will rise in three steps, from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour, but advocates and critics still disagree on the benefits to low-wage workers
The first minimum wage increase in 10 years takes effect Tuesday, to $5.85 from $5.15 an hour, with two more steps over the next two years taking base pay for millions of workers to $7.25.
You know this is good, but I wonder how this helps your restaurant workers that don't even make minimum wage to start with. Your basic restaurant worker only makes $2.13 an hour because they recieve tips. Just think at that rate of pay your check would be what $80 before taxes. I don't think they should count tips because a tip is like a reward for good service from a worker.How many people get a bad waiter or waitress and decide they don't deserve a good tip or they leave them nothing. So does this mean these workers are still going to be below poverty level.

joepole 07-24-2007 11:20 AM

>You know this is good,

No, this is bad. Everybody else's wages just went down.

rhertz 07-24-2007 11:34 AM

It is always bad when government interferes with market forces. Anytime the government manipulates market forces, it is a slap in the face of capitalism and a vote for, well, something else.

In case nobody noticed, the Al-Qaeda attacks were attacks on Western capitalism. They bombed the world TRADE center, the center of capitalism in the western world. I'm sick and tired of two faced politicians comforting the enemy, and/or opposing capitalism and free enterprise which is what made this country great to begin with. Many Americans died so that I would not have a socialistic governments telling me what I must pay people or else go to jail, (if I am allowed to be in business to begin with)

joepole 07-24-2007 11:39 AM

The WTC was not the center of capitalism in the western world. The NY and London Stock Exchanges (and, to a lesser extent the US Federal Reserve Bank) were/are.

rhertz 07-24-2007 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole
The WTC was not the center of capitalism in the western world. The NY and London Stock Exchanges (and, to a lesser extent the US Federal Reserve Bank) were/are.

OK, that is probably true, but you get my point. It was not the WSC (World Socialism Center) or the WRC (World Religion Center) that they attacked.

Isaac-Saxxon 07-24-2007 11:51 AM

I am against this minimum wage increase. With that said I guess all the people that work at SBLive will be getting a raise :D
Hey rherz I am so glad to see you put your foot down so hard on something so political :clap: :clap:

piemaker720 07-24-2007 04:10 PM

Okay, now the truth comes out. The little people don't count and should not be allowed a raise of any sort. Even the people in fast foods that wait on your sorry butts. If a company owner would give raises without the government making them, then the government would not intervene. It was already said that this was the first raise in 10 YEARS. You can say a company would pay more if the workers worked harder, but you can also say a worker would work harder if the company paid more. Business owners have had 10 years of financial peace without the governments intervention, now it is the workers turn. You know I use to work at a restaurant in Jonesboro, when I started I made 90 cents a hour, when I quit and moved here I was making $3.00 a hour, it took 30 years to get a $2.10 raise. The customers use to tell us we were worth an egg a hour because that is what 1 egg and a piece of toast cost on the menu. So excuse me if I don't have pity for ya.

joepole 07-24-2007 04:15 PM

Employers (by definition) pay employees what they're worth. Nobody deserves to have their salary artificially inflated by the government, that does nothing but hurt the rest of the country.

If you worked at a minimum wage job for thirty years then there is something wrong with you. At no point in those three decades did you develop a skill that someone in the universe felt was worth more than what the government mandated was the bare minimum allowable by law? How are you able to operate a computer?

joepole 07-24-2007 04:22 PM

>should not be allowed a raise of any sort.

Who said anything about allowed? We're talking about mandated. The minimum wage is nothing more than welfare that paid directly by the employer instead of filtering through the treasury.

"Your skills are actually worth $3/hour, but we're demanding you get paid twice that because...well...because there are a lot of stupid people in this country and they voted themselves money because they don't know anything about economics."

piemaker720 07-24-2007 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole
Employers (by definition) pay employees what they're worth. Nobody deserves to have their salary artificially inflated by the government, that does nothing but hurt the rest of the country.

If you worked at a minimum wage job for thirty years then there is something wrong with you. At no point in those three decades did you develop a skill that someone in the universe felt was worth more than what the government mandated was the bare minimum allowable by law? How are you able to operate a computer?


I did not work for a straight 30 years for this company, I worked on and off for this company. It was just a tight waded employer that couldn't let go of a nickel, that is the reason the man always needs help, he can't keep help because of low pay. As far as my skill, I can work a computer, I am also a CNA, Emt, a first responder, I also worked in a paper mill, so I have plenty of skills, though it's none of your business what skills I have. I on the other hand wonder about your skills.

joepole 07-24-2007 04:59 PM

If you weren't being paid what you were worth, why did you work there? Since you agreed to work for that money, you obviously felt you were being compensated appropriately and since the guy is still in business after thirty years he apparently pays his employees an acceptable amount.

piemaker720 07-24-2007 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole
If you weren't being paid what you were worth, why did you work there? Since you agreed to work for that money, you obviously felt you were being compensated appropriately and since the guy is still in business after thirty years he apparently pays his employees an acceptable amount.

You know no one can talk to you. You are rude, sarcastic and annoying to all of us. So blow it out your BUTT.

Isabella 07-24-2007 05:30 PM

I am not for the increase either. If an employee is good then they will be paid accordingly. Best example, I have two employees, one works for minimum wage and the other I pay $8 per hour. The minimum wage employee sits around watching TV and works very slow while the other does not watch TV and works fast and does a much better job. Neither are well educated. I am not going to pay someone more than they are worth. When the pay goes over $6 per hour I will no longer employ the minimum wage employee, because I am not going to waste my money. Raising the mininum wage may put many people out of work. There are people who have no education, not very bright and efficient, but you hire them since you don't have to pay them much.

howela 07-24-2007 05:32 PM

A rose by any other name.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
It is always bad when government interferes with market forces. Anytime the government manipulates market forces, it is a slap in the face of capitalism and a vote for, well, something else.


Socialism

piemaker720 07-24-2007 06:11 PM

I would like to know if there is anyone out there that is not an employer that is against the minimum wage raise.

rhertz 07-24-2007 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemaker720
Okay, now the truth comes out. The little people don't count and should not be allowed a raise of any sort. Even the people in fast foods that wait on your sorry butts. If a company owner would give raises without the government making them, then the government would not intervene.

Piemaker I understand how you feel, but here is the truth. "Supply and Demand" is your friend, if you understand how it works. Using your example, if there are lots of people available to work in fast food joints, and a limited number of joints to work at, then wages are low. What is the solution? To artificially manipulate the market? Or else perhaps a portion of these fast food workers could go to school and learn a trade that is more "rare" and therefore more valuable and demands a higher wage because the demand is high and supply is low. In other words, "supply and demand" works for people (careers) as well as goods. Now if somone *chooses* to stay in a high supply and low demand job, that is their business, but it doesn't have to be that way.

rhertz 07-24-2007 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemaker720
I would like to know if there is anyone out there that is not an employer that is against the minimum wage raise.

Piemaker, my company failed to make a profit this month. I am not on the payroll and get paid only when I make money. This month, I worked for free! Or worse, I actually paid for the priviledge to do my job this month. Go figure.....

The only legal way to earn less than minimum wage is to work for oneself. I earned less than minimum wage this month. Where's my government mandated check? (But I'm not expecting one on any moral basis whatsoever)

Another reason minimum wage is a bad idea is that it excluded employers! (the one who should probably be protected the most since we hire others!)

joepole 07-24-2007 08:30 PM

I have no employees and I oppose the minimum wage increase because I have at least a basic grasp of economics processes and how they affect the economy.

joepole 07-24-2007 08:32 PM

>You know no one can talk to you. You are rude, sarcastic and annoying to all of us. So blow it out your BUTT.

In case anyone ever wants to know what the logical fallacy known as "ad hominem" looks like, here's a textbook example. When faced with questions the opponent either doesn't understand or doesn't want to answer, the opponent attacks the person that asked the question instead of answering the actual question.

piemaker720 07-24-2007 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
Piemaker I understand how you feel, but here is the truth. "Supply and Demand" is your friend, if you understand how it works. Using your example, if there are lots of people available to work in fast food joints, and a limited number of joints to work at, then wages are low. What is the solution? To artificially manipulate the market? Or else perhaps a portion of these fast food workers could go to school and learn a trade that is more "rare" and therefore more valuable and demands a higher wage because the demand is high and supply is low. In other words, "supply and demand" works for people (careers) as well as goods. Now if somone *chooses* to stay in a high supply and low demand job, that is their business, but it doesn't have to be that way.

I understand what you are trying to say but I still disagree. You say everyone that works for minimum wage should go to school and do better. What about the high school kids that work summers, nights or weekends or the college kids that work their way through school to buy books, pay tution, but they do not deserve a wage increase. What about a retired person that is trying to supplement their retirement income, they don't deserve a wage increase, they should get off their duff and go to school uh. It is not just about fast food jobs, what about Wal-Mart[ your elderly door greeters], your grocery store workers, your convience stores[gas] and so fourth. Then there is the CNA's that take care of your elderly, they don't deserve a wage increase and your elderly don't deserve to be taken care of. Your CNA's go to school, they are state licensed but alot don't make but minimum in small areas. There is a lot of companies that could give raises without being told to but they don't because they say that cuts into the profit, they just don't want to give a raise. So now what happens. My daughter works for Ryan's on Airline, They were just told they would not get any raise because of tips, they stay at $2.13 a hour. She goes to school. At first it was told fast food would go to $4.00 a hour, but guess what, I guess they don't deserve a raise. Supply and Demand, think, who's going to care for you in your golden age, hopefully you want have to be a people greeter.

Isabella 07-24-2007 09:28 PM

Piemaker, it is rare people don't get raises after they have worked for a period of time. The mininum wage is a beginning wage. Normally, if you do a good job then your pay will increase over time. Why do you think college & high school students deserve to make as much as people with years of experience? They are learning how to work.

piemaker720 07-24-2007 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Piemaker, it is rare people don't get raises after they have worked for a period of time. The mininum wage is a beginning wage. Normally, if you do a good job then your pay will increase over time. Why do you think college & high school students deserve to make as much as people with years of experience? They are learning how to work.


This is true they may not need to make as much, I believe if a person stays loyal to a company they should gets raises. But this is the first raise in 10 years, I guess you think the economy has not risen in 10 years. I came from a small town where there was not enough jobs for workers, those companies did not give raises because they didn't have to. In a small town minimum wage is not just a starting wage, it is it. If everyone that had minmum wage jobs went to school to better their self who would then do the job, a retired elderly person that don't count. It may be rare for a person not to get a raise in a large city but it is in a small town. Then you have your CNA's that go to school and they start out at minimum wage. I will tell you because I have been there, It takes a special person to work in a nursing home, they really have to like the elderly and be dedicated, it take alot of patience, love and turning the other cheek to work there. They will never be paid enough in my book.

AnimeSpirit 07-24-2007 10:41 PM

Personally, I'm glad minimum wage finally went up. The average cost of living is slowly rising and everyone needs a little bonus every now and then.

Isabella 07-24-2007 11:23 PM

Where I live mostly students receive minimum wage. A greeter at WalMart are nomally retired persons. Why do you think greeting people should be a higher paying job? Most retired people have an income and this supplements their income and gives them something to do. Most people don't settle for minimum wage after they have been in the work force after a period of time. They will move to get a better job.

rhertz 07-24-2007 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemaker720
I understand what you are trying to say but I still disagree. You say everyone that works for minimum wage should go to school and do better. What about the high school kids that work summers, nights or weekends or the college kids that work their way through school to buy books, pay tution, but they do not deserve a wage increase. What about a retired person that is trying to supplement their retirement income, they don't deserve a wage increase

OK, lets say that minimum wage goes up 5%. Now what is better? 100,000 people working making say $6 per hour or 95,000 people working making $6.30 per hour and 5,000 people laid off making nothing? Where do you presume the extra 5% comes from? Thin air? Out of the employer's pocket? What if he or she doesn't have it? What then? Shut down and lay off everyone? Is that fair?

rhertz 07-24-2007 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnimeSpirit
everyone needs a little bonus every now and then.

Everyone should get a bonus regardless of how many people want their job without a bonus? And regardless if they do a good job or not? I would say that a bonus under those circumstances nearly amounts to stealing.

On top of that, it shows quite a lack of faith in a person to believe they need the government to artificially increase their wage rather than the free market and the person's abilities set the price.

piemaker720 07-24-2007 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Where I live mostly students receive minimum wage. A greeter at WalMart are nomally retired persons. Why do you think greeting people should be a higher paying job? Most retired people have an income and this supplements their income and gives them something to do. Most people don't settle for minimum wage after they have been in the work force after a period of time. They will move to get a better job.


I beg to differ, if a retired person has 30 to 40 years paid on a house, they are not just going to move on a whime. Why do you think they don't deserve to get a raise in minimum wage. If a person has invested 30 to 50 years in a job to retire and they work to supplement their income, your saying they don't deserve it. Listen to the news it is filled with stories of elderly who can't afford their medicine on a fixed income or have trouble paying utilities on a fixed income because of high fuel cost. Besides you ask awhile ago why I thought a student deserved a higher wage, but you say you live in a place where mostly students recieve minimum wage, but they don't deserve a raise.

joepole 07-24-2007 11:44 PM

>Personally, I'm glad minimum wage finally went up. The average cost of living is slowly rising and everyone needs a little bonus every now and then.

That's shows an incredible lack of understanding. You know one of the best ways to raise the cost of living? Increase the minimum wage.

The least productive members of our society just got raises. Everyone else just got a pay cut.

piemaker720 07-24-2007 11:56 PM

<That's shows an incredible lack of understanding. You know one of the best ways to raise the cost of living? Increase the minimum wage>

What a joke, HaHa, very funny. The cost of living has been rising for several years with fuel adjustments on your lights. gas for your home, gas for your car and minimum wage ain't went up in 10 years. Funny!

Isabella 07-24-2007 11:57 PM

Rhertz, I agree it is not fair. An employer offers a job at a rate of pay he can afford. An individual has the right to accept it or look for a higher wage. If an employer does not give them a raise then the employee has the right to seek another job with higher pay. Me for instance cannot afford to pay someone over $6 to clean my house who works slowly. I will have to let them go. This person has no transportation and depends on employer to give them transportation. How many people are going to be willing to hire this person? She is much better off receiving minumum wage at $5.15 an hour than nothing. She also gets $350 in food stamps each month. I pay social security on her and do not deduct her part out of her pay. She pays no taxes. There is no way I am going to pay someone over $7 an hour to watch TV and do a job that takes 4 hours in 8 hours. I feed her and pay her while she eats, too. I have to hire another person to come every other week to do the work she does not do. I also clean up after her after she leaves. Some people don't deserve to be paid more and these are the people who will suffer. Pay should be determined on perfomance. My husband gets raises he never asks for because he is valuable to his employer.

Isabella 07-25-2007 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemaker720
I beg to differ, if a retired person has 30 to 40 years paid on a house, they are not just going to move on a whime. Why do you think they don't deserve to get a raise in minimum wage. If a person has invested 30 to 50 years in a job to retire and they work to supplement their income, your saying they don't deserve it. Listen to the news it is filled with stories of elderly who can't afford their medicine on a fixed income or have trouble paying utilities on a fixed income because of high fuel cost. Besides you ask awhile ago why I thought a student deserved a higher wage, but you say you live in a place where mostly students recieve minimum wage, but they don't deserve a raise.

You should pay a person according to the type of job. They start out at a wage an after a period of time if employer is satisfied with their performance they get a raise. You know, WalMart could do without hiring greeters. Many jobs for elderly will be eliminated.

piemaker720 07-25-2007 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
Rhertz, I agree it is not fair. An employer offers a job at a rate of pay he can afford. An individual has the right to accept it or look for a higher wage. If an employer does not give them a raise then the employee has the right to seek another job with higher pay. Me for instance cannot afford to pay someone over $6 to clean my house who works slowly. I will have to let them go. This person has no transportation and depends on employer to give them transportation. How many people are going to be willing to hire this person? She is much better off receiving minumum wage at $5.15 an hour than nothing. She also gets $350 in food stamps each month. I pay social security on her and do not deduct her part out of her pay. She pays no taxes. There is no way I am going to pay someone over $7 an hour to watch TV and do a job that takes 4 hours in 8 hours. I feed her and pay her while she eats, too. I have to hire another person to come every other week to do the work she does not do. I also clean up after her after she leaves. Some people don't deserve to be paid more and these are the people who will suffer. Pay should be determined on perfomance. My husband gets raises he never asks for because he is valuable to his employer.

You are talking about someone to clean your house, I would get rid of that one that does nothing. I'm talking about companies as big as wal-mart, even convience stores that are a chain. That restaurant that I worked at in Jonesboro for 3 dollars a hour. You know why he got by with it. They say he has to have 5 or more working that was not related to him and he didn't because his wife, son, daughter worked there. I know because other people have tried to turn him in before. You know his son or daughter sure did not work for $3.00 a hour. Its true some people don't deserve what they get but that is not to say everyone is that way. But in truth if this lady does this to you it is because you let her get away with it.

piemaker720 07-25-2007 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isabella
You should pay a person according to the type of job. They start out at a wage an after a period of time if employer is satisfied with their performance they get a raise. You know, WalMart could do without hiring greeters. Many jobs for elderly will be eliminated.

I agree with this but what if you have a good employee that does not get offered a raise after a period of time just because the employer is tight waded, it happens, they think if I hired them at a certain rate and the worker doesn't say anything about a raise then the employer is not gonna give one because he thinks why should he. If they start at one rate of pay they should get a raise if the employer is satisfied. Wal-Mart can do without greeters then the elderly will just go to convience stores or fast food.

piemaker720 07-25-2007 12:36 AM

You know we talked about fast food and waiters and waitress that only make $2.13 an hour because of tips. A tip is another name for gratiuty. Do you know what that means?

<gra·tu·i·ty /grəˈtuɪti, -ˈtyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties. 1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand. >

It's a gift, not everyone tips these days.

Also what I said about you being the reason that woman does what she does, I may have said that wrong. I know some people are kind hearted and when they try to help someone like a job, they tend to over look their sloppy work habits. It was really nothing against you.

Isabella 07-25-2007 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piemaker720
You know we talked about fast food and waiters and waitress that only make $2.13 an hour because of tips. A tip is another name for gratiuty. Do you know what that means?

<gra·tu·i·ty /grəˈtuɪti, -ˈtyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[gruh-too-i-tee, -tyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties. 1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand. >

It's a gift, not everyone tips these days.

Also what I said about you being the reason that woman does what she does, I may have said that wrong. I know some people are kind hearted and when they try to help someone like a job, they tend to over look their sloppy work habits. It was really nothing against you.

You are right, I allow her to work, because she needs the income and no one else would put up with her. She is not very bright, but she is a good person. Since I have to hire someone else to come and do what she cannot do, there is no way I can pay her more. People like her will lose out with the increase in minimum wage. If you don't like what someone pays you then go find another job. No one forces you to work for lower wages. There are people in the work force who are uneducated and without skills that need jobs, but will not be hired if an employer cannot afford to hire them.

Your comment about waiters and waitresses, they should be paid minimum wage and not under. I don't see how employers got away with this over the years. It is not all black and white. There are a lot of grey areas. The private sector will be hurt by this increase. Many people will lose jobs.

Isaac-Saxxon 07-25-2007 05:37 AM

The government should not be able to tell a business owner how much he or she should have to pay workers. This will drive up the cost of doing business and cost to the consumer and then the democRATs will blame this on the GOP and use it as another one of their nasty little political tools. All in the name of helping the little man and to buy votes.

Isabella 07-25-2007 09:05 AM

So true Isaac!

LateNight 07-25-2007 09:05 AM

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to explain why I oppose a bill to raise the federally-mandated minimum wage. Raising living standards for all Americans is an admirable goal, however, to believe that Congress can raise the standard of living for working Americans by simply forcing employers to pay their employees a higher wage is equivalent to claiming that Congress can repeal gravity by passing a law saying humans shall have the ability to fly.

Economic principles dictate that when government imposes a minimum wage rate above the market wage rate, it creates a surplus `wedge' between the supply of labor and the demand for labor, leading to an increase in unemployment. Employers cannot simply begin paying more to workers whose marginal productivity does not meet or exceed the law-imposed wage. The only course of action available to the employer is to mechanize operations or employ a higher-skilled worker whose output meets or exceeds the `minimum wage.' This, of course, has the advantage of giving the skilled worker an additional (and government-enforced) advantage over the unskilled worker. For example, where formerly an employer had the option of hiring three unskilled workers at $5 per hour or one skilled worker at $16 per hour, a minimum wage of $6 suddenly leaves the employer only the choice of the skilled worker at an additional cost of $1 per hour. I would ask my colleagues, if the minimum wage is the means to prosperity, why stop at $6.65--why not $50, $75, or $100 per hour?

Those who are denied employment opportunities as a result of the minimum wage are often young people at the lower end of the income scale who are seeking entry-level employment. Their inability to find an entry-level job will limit their employment prospects for years to come. Thus, raising the minimum wage actually lowers the employment and standard of living of the very people proponents of the minimum wage claim will benefit from government intervention in the economy!

Furthermore, interfering in the voluntary transactions of employers and employees in the name of making things better for low wage earners violates citizens' rights of association and freedom of contract as if to say to citizens `you are incapable of making employment decisions for yourself in the marketplace.'



Mr. Speaker, Congress should not fool itself into believing that the package of small business tax cuts will totally compensate for the damage inflicted on small businesses and their employees by the minimum wage increase. This assumes that Congress is omnipotent and thus can strike a perfect balance between tax cuts and regulations so that no firm, or worker, in the country is adversely effected by federal policies. If the 20th Century taught us anything it was that any and all attempts to centrally plan an economy, especially one as large and diverse as America's, are doomed to fail.

In conclusion, I would remind my colleagues that while it may make them feel good to raise the federal minimum wage, the real life consequences of this bill will be vested upon those who can least afford to be deprived of work opportunities. Therefore, rather than pretend that Congress can repeal the economic principles, I urge my colleagues to reject this legislation and instead embrace a program of tax cuts and regulatory reform to strengthen the greatest producer of jobs and prosperity in human history: the free market.

-- Ron Paul

Isabella 07-25-2007 09:15 AM

LOL, I was reading and I was thinking, wow he is so right and great points, truly impressed with Latenight then I see the name Ron Paul at the end. Anyway, Ron Paul could not have said it better. The little man will be the one who suffers in the end. Unemployment will rise.

piemaker720 07-25-2007 09:21 AM

You know I don't understand why all of you are griping and so against the minimum wage increase. This raise only affects a small portion of workers. If you already make above minimum wage then you will not be getting a raise. It is to help the little people catch up with the economy. You can talk how the people needs to go to school to improve themselves but someone still has to do these jobs. It is also fine and good when you can sit in judgement of these people in your life, with your family and home and you have alot of single parents with children trying to do the best they can with what they can get. If you really understood you know life throws things at people out of the blue. A man dies and the wife has never worked, she has kids she has to take care of. It happens. Sure there are some people in these low paying jobs that are worthless and sorry but those same type of people run your big corperations too. Do you think a CEO of a corperation should deserve to make 6 figure paychecks? I have been where the little people are and unless you have you will never know how they feel. You can also say if a person doesn't like what they are being paid, quit and go somewhere else, but then the boss that pays low will not keep workers. Big amounts of turn overs cost more than a faithful employee that stays put. Have you ever been in a business when everytime you go there someone knew is working and you wonder what is going on.


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