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-   -   The subtle transformation into fascist America. (http://www.shreveport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1231)

Santabot 04-24-2007 09:30 PM

The subtle transformation into fascist America.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

View link for full story, too large to quote or post.

Very interesting, many key and valid points, something I've suspected for a while now, maybe some of you will agree.

purpahurl 04-25-2007 01:42 PM

Democrats
 
These ten points sound exactly like what the liberals are trying to do.

rhertz 04-25-2007 02:09 PM

I see things drifting more towards a subtle transformation into socialist America with increasing entitlements. In other words, we are becoming more like Canada each day. I still see the US as a place where anyone can succeed with hard work and integrity. But success is not free or guaranteed to anyone. If I'm not willing to work or earn a degree and find myself as a lower class citizen, who's fault is that? Just because someone chooses to be in a lower class, doesn't mean they live in a fascist government. There is only so much government can do to educate and motivate someone to succeed.

BrainSmashR 04-25-2007 03:50 PM

I just love when liberals reference foreign sources when describing our country. It makes it so much easier to identify the main problem behind their misunderstandings and lack of knowledge.

Santabot 04-25-2007 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
I see things drifting more towards a subtle transformation into socialist America with increasing entitlements. In other words, we are becoming more like Canada each day. I still see the US as a place where anyone can succeed with hard work and integrity. But success is not free or guaranteed to anyone. If I'm not willing to work or earn a degree and find myself as a lower class citizen, who's fault is that? Just because someone chooses to be in a lower class, doesn't mean they live in a fascist government. There is only so much government can do to educate and motivate someone to succeed.

Agreed, and I've seen it the same in seeing our country evolve into a more socialist democracy like Canada, but the difference is our government still claims we're entirely free, so the people who are reasonably affected by mass media still truly believe they're free, even though they live in white socialist America, rename the republican party to the Nazi party and see how many people disagree, but if you look at the similarities in all aspects, there's almost no difference in the two.

Although I disagree on the part of education, a lot of people are unable to get free education, whereas Canadians are all able to go to university, despite their economic class. Here, we just are willing to pay welfare checks and stick people into holes and not hear from them again, as long as they don't shoot at us and commit heinous crimes, which the act of secluding them just makes it a necessity to look towards theft as a legitimate source of living.

Santabot 04-25-2007 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
I just love when liberals reference foreign sources when describing our country. It makes it so much easier to identify the main problem behind their misunderstandings and lack of knowledge.

I'm not a liberal, far from it.

The Guardian is also a well-publicized and respected source of information, even for many Americans who enjoy the luxury of seeing our own country from an outside perspective. Britain is not exempt from witnessing the bull**** that goes on in our country; but the sad thing is, most of us are.

rhertz 04-25-2007 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
even though they live in white socialist America

You may have had a point once upon a time 50+ years ago. But today socialism is color blind in America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Although I disagree on the part of education, a lot of people are unable to get free education, whereas Canadians are all able to go to university, despite their economic class. Here, we just are willing to pay welfare checks and stick people into holes and not hear from them again, as long as they don't shoot at us and commit heinous crimes, which the act of secluding them just makes it a necessity to look towards theft as a legitimate source of living.

Your joking right? Do you know how many government programs there are for educating and training the young and poor? The only thing we do not do is put a gun to everyone's head and tell them what their job will be like in the old Soviet Union. In America we can lead someone to water, but we cannot make them drink.

Santabot 04-25-2007 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
Your joking right? Do you know how many government programs there are for educating and training the young and poor? The only thing we do not do is put a gun to everyone's head and tell them what their job will be like in the old Soviet Union. In America we can lead someone to water, but we cannot make them drink.

Sure, join the military and die for your education.

Al Swearengen 04-25-2007 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Sure, join the military and die for your education.


One need not even do that to get an education. All ya have to do is apply for somethin called "FAFSA"...sure, you'll end up with some hefty student loans to pay off, but you'll be a degreed professional. And if your grades are REALLY good, you'll qualify for scholarships or grants, which ya dont even need to pay back!

Now, as for joinin the military and dyin for your education, you could die any damn day and NOT receive education benefits. Besides, military service should be compulsory here as it is in Israel. I believe everyone should be required to fullfill their obligation as a condition of citizenship, everyone should have to make the commitment, which is only fair. You should be willin to forfeit your life in the service of our great country if necessary (though as General Patton said, its far better to make the enemy die for HIS country), so that future generations can enjoy the same freedoms that you did.

Isaac-Saxxon 04-25-2007 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
One need not even do that to get an education. All ya have to do is apply for somethin called "FAFSA"...sure, you'll end up with some hefty student loans to pay off, but you'll be a degreed professional. And if your grades are REALLY good, you'll qualify for scholarships or grants, which ya dont even need to pay back!

Now, as for joinin the military and dyin for your education, you could die any damn day and NOT receive education benefits. Besides, military service should be compulsory here as it is in Israel. I believe everyone should be required to fullfill their obligation as a condition of citizenship, everyone should have to make the commitment, which is only fair. You should be willin to forfeit your life in the service of our great country if necessary (though as General Patton said, its far better to make the enemy die for HIS country), so that future generations can enjoy the same freedoms that you did.

Al you have hit the nail again. I have a print of George Patton and his dog William in a frame on the wall in my office. George has been watching now for about 20 or so years. I love your post once again. I agree let the other poor bastard die for his country and that is better than shoveling sheet in LA!!!

Santabot 04-25-2007 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
One need not even do that to get an education. All ya have to do is apply for somethin called "FAFSA"...sure, you'll end up with some hefty student loans to pay off, but you'll be a degreed professional. And if your grades are REALLY good, you'll qualify for scholarships or grants, which ya dont even need to pay back!

Now, as for joinin the military and dyin for your education, you could die any damn day and NOT receive education benefits. Besides, military service should be compulsory here as it is in Israel. I believe everyone should be required to fullfill their obligation as a condition of citizenship, everyone should have to make the commitment, which is only fair. You should be willin to forfeit your life in the service of our great country if necessary (though as General Patton said, its far better to make the enemy die for HIS country), so that future generations can enjoy the same freedoms that you did.

And I agree with you, you're one of the few I do like here.

I'm just saying the way the government has portrayed the military as a corporate entity and it advertises and persuades people to join for reasons outside of the sole fact that you will be entirely setting your life up to the government, they don't advertise that in their commercials, etc. It is too focused on trying to get you to join for reasons other than actually serving for personal reasons, etc.

And I've already gotten plenty of scholarships myself, and I'll maybe be attending LSU in Baton Rouge in a year+, and I've already received a full scholarship there, so it's not an issue for me, but those disadvantaged and older and unable to pay for education, it's a bit harder to find those sort of programs offered by the government and other agencies.

Neo 04-25-2007 06:52 PM

Santabot you are implying you don't like me,,,, I unplugged from the matrix a long time ago.

Al Swearengen 04-25-2007 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
you will be entirely setting your life up to the government, they don't advertise that in their commercials

You're quite correct on that score...very perceptive. While you're there, they do indeed own your ass. But its necessary...goes with the territory. Most people dont realize that until the cattlecar pulls up to the curb at Basic Trainin and those doors open. Ya sound like a smart young man, and you're to be commended for pressin on with your education.

Santabot 04-25-2007 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
You're quite correct on that score...very perceptive. While you're there, they do indeed own your ass. But its necessary...goes with the territory. Most people dont realize that until the cattlecar pulls up to the curb at Basic Trainin and those doors open. Ya sound like a smart young man, and you're to be commended for pressin on with your education.

Indeed. And I highly doubt that I'll be serving in the American military in the future, but that's no reason I wouldn't support those with the balls to do so.

It's kindof funny, because my main example for previous statements is this senior at school who, funnily enough, thought he could scam out the government and sign up for free schooling (in a time that even injured soldiers are being FORCED to re-enter the warzone) and get away from a draft, etc. He made a plea in front of a school organization to all those who thought they had futures in the military not to try and cheat it out, I laughed, but it's true. He's been in ROTC since freshman year, and that was before it was as highly focused in Iraq. Now, he's reconsidering how much he thinks he's wasted by offering that much of himself to something he no longer supports. It's sad and somewhat proof that people who sign up may not have the same feelings (like you said) when it's time to own up to agreements.

rhertz 04-25-2007 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Sure, join the military and die for your education.

As a local businessman, my employees and I have participated in a city program where the city pays half of training costs, while I pay the other half. Zero cost to the employee. No military involved. And this is but one single example of a (non-military) government program.

Santabot 04-25-2007 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhertz
As a local businessman, my employees and I have participated in a city program where the city pays half of training costs, while I pay the other half. Zero cost to the employee. No military involved. And this is but one single example of a (non-military) government program.

Unless you're paying for people to get their BA or higher, then that's not the same issue I'm talking about. Training for businesses is partly there for employers, and also for employees who plan on their careers beforehand. Those employers that need people desperately or would like to offer free training are doing a service in order to enhance those individuals and the business itself by having properly trained employees.

rhertz 04-25-2007 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Unless you're paying for people to get their BA or higher, then that's not the same issue I'm talking about.

Total BS.. A CNA or CCIE certification is worth a lot more than a BA. But I have also helped pay an employee to get her MBA, so that happens too. But she wasn't some looser. You gotta earn it. Nothing is free. Somebody has to pay for it. The question becomes whether help comes from government or the private and religious sectors. I prefer the last 2 as it should be.

Neo 04-25-2007 07:47 PM

Better if it is deserved or earned rather than given away by the government, which happens to be by my own expense anyway.

BrainSmashR 04-25-2007 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
I'm not a liberal, far from it.

The Guardian is also a well-publicized and respected source of information, even for many Americans who enjoy the luxury of seeing our own country from an outside perspective. Britain is not exempt from witnessing the bull**** that goes on in our country; but the sad thing is, most of us are.

So is the New York Times....taht doesn't mean it isn't a biased piece of crap too.

Hey kid, did it ever occur to you that what you consider "bull****" , is what the voting majorty of the country want?

Santabot 04-25-2007 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
So is the New York Times....taht doesn't mean it isn't a biased piece of crap too.

Hey kid, did it ever occur to you that what you consider "bull****" , is what the voting majorty of the country want?

The majority would agree when the mass media is the same affecting all, where corporate entities control the minds and votes of the majority of Americans in their daily lives, because they truthfully believe the so-called "experts" who are almost unanimously claimed by the government's payroll and limits.

BrainSmashR 04-25-2007 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Sure, join the military and die for your education.

EVERYONE qualifies for student loans...

Or god forbid, excel in High School and earn a scholarship.

BrainSmashR 04-25-2007 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
The majority would agree when the mass media is the same affecting all, where corporate entities control the minds and votes of the majority of Americans in their daily lives, because they truthfully believe the so-called "experts" who are almost unanimously claimed by the government's payroll and limits.


Well only a 17 year old fool would think the majority of Americans are so stupid that they can't think for themselves...

Santabot 04-25-2007 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
EVERYONE qualifies for student loans...

Or god forbid, excel in High School and earn a scholarship.

Passing in high school is not that simple of a task.

Personally, from experience, I've seen that making a minor error in the FIFTH grade can cost you an entire year or two of math or even science to make you behind/ahead of the rest of the class. I had a few key absences in school in fifth grade, and this lead to me missing a vital test that eventually lowered my grade to a C (it was, I believe, very border-line close to a B) and that kept me from eventually being in Calculus this year, I'm in Pre-calc, but if that certain small event that I actually didn't have a choice in the matter, it actually entirely changed my classes, schedules, friends and teachers, etc.

The school system is in a MAJOR need of reform. I believe the school system needs to be privatized to promote school teachers to work harder to earn better pay for their contributions. More awards need to be given and less selective cliques should be acknowledged, at this point, there are various small groups that will attend EVERY scholastic opportunity extra-curricularly, but others will not be informed of any way to get to those events in order to achieve.

If you want to argue the school system with me, someone who is still currently in it, at one of the best schools around, and has all of the advantages of seeing the peak of ability and the others who are drastically behind in education, I should be able to easily give a better judgment on the way the process is being run and handled in its current state, at least locally.

BrainSmashR 04-25-2007 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Passing in high school is not that simple of a task.

Jesus kid....you need to get some new friends.
Quote:

Personally, from experience, I've seen that making a minor error in the FIFTH grade can cost you an entire year or two of math or even science to make you behind/ahead of the rest of the class. I had a few key absences in school in fifth grade, and this lead to me missing a vital test that eventually lowered my grade to a C (it was, I believe, very border-line close to a B) and that kept me from eventually being in Calculus this year, I'm in Pre-calc, but if that certain small event that I actually didn't have a choice in the matter, it actually entirely changed my classes, schedules, friends and teachers, etc.
Guess what? When you go to college, most of your classes, schedules, friends , and teacher will change again. Then you know what? When you graduate and go to grad school in another country, it's gonna happen to you all over again. Then guess what? When you graduate and get a job, it's going to happen all over again.

It's called life kid, and change is a big part of it.

Academics aren't the only type of scholarships out there, and if someone is struggling in high school, then they need to be thinking about Trade School, not college anyway.
Quote:

The school system is in a MAJOR need of reform. I believe the school system needs to be privatized to promote school teachers to work harder to earn better pay for their contributions. More awards need to be given and less selective cliques should be acknowledged, at this point, there are various small groups that will attend EVERY scholastic opportunity extra-curricularly, but others will not be informed of any way to get to those events in order to achieve.

If you want to argue the school system with me, someone who is still currently in it, at one of the best schools around, and has all of the advantages of seeing the peak of ability and the others who are drastically behind in education, I should be able to easily give a better judgment on the way the process is being run and handled in its current state, at least locally.
Why would I want to argue the school system with you?

Simply put, I don't care about people who lack the intelligence OR the ambition to pass high school. We have welfare, government housing, food stamps, free clinics, and even prison for those. We aren't all created equally and it's about time we stopped blaming external forces on the failures of the individual.


BTW, you never did address student loans. You know, that alternative to military service for higher education that everyone qualifies for......

Santabot 04-25-2007 09:06 PM

Free prison with a $500+ per day cost to keep them there, rather than putting them to work and extracting taxes to pay for others who break the law and are there.

Remove drug offenses and you let out 55.1% of the country's imprisoned citizens.

BrainSmashR 04-26-2007 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santabot
Free prison with a $500+ per day cost to keep them there, rather than putting them to work and extracting taxes to pay for others who break the law and are there.

Remove drug offenses and you let out 55.1% of the country's imprisoned citizens.

According to the Department of Justice, drug offenders only make up an average of about 20% of the prison population. Care to show where you got 55.1%?

BTW, I supervise an inmate labor crew for a living....


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