[BrainSmashR]

Originally Posted by rhertz

I think there are 100’s, perhaps 1000’s of individual writings that could be divinely inspired by God, many are included in the collective text we call the Bible. Not all works are divinely inspired, some are just literature. Even if I write a factual bibliography, although ever word maybe be true, this does not necessarily make the work divinely inspired by God. Most writings are works by man, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Even divinely inspired works of writing still fall under the realm of "just literature", as the term literature encompasses all works of writing.

In short, you are using an irrelevant characteristic as your means of discrimination. It's not different than you saying "this isn't a book because it's red, or because it has over 100 pages".

Literature is literature regardless of the source, author or context under which the work is created.

Do you believe Homer was divinely inspired by God or gods? Do you believe the Iliad and Odyssey are the preeminent authoritative books of your religion?

Certainly not...I don't believe in imaginary beings be it Zeus, Jehovah, Santa Clause, or Bigfoot.

The Book of Genesis, like all Holy Scripture, was written under the divine inspiration of the one true God of Abraham. Your question is, however, exactly who were the “holy men” who were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the Book of Genesis? I believe it was Moses but not all Christians are in full agreement.

No, you said many of the works of the bible are first-hand accounts, including Genesis....and I quote:

"The author of the Bible most assuredly witnessed the creation."

AND from the post before that.

"Many gave first-hand accounts."

Obviously the emphasis is my own....it's purpose is to show you clearly intended to state that one of the authors of the Bible was present during the creation of the Earth.

Are you now stating that was NOT your intention and that no author of the Bible was present at the creation and therefore at least one of the Books in the Bible is not a first-hand account?

I’m not 100% sure of your definition of “divinely inspired” compared to the majority of mankind, however I will clarify that I do not believe Homer was divinely inspired by the one true God of Abraham. Sorry if I was not clear on that. Perhaps it is possible to be divinely inspired by the devil, or the sun. I do not really know. So clearly I do not equate all “divine inspiration” as coming from the Holy Spirit(tm)

"Divine" means of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god.

So yes, if one believes Zeus, the devil or the Sun to be their "god" then they can be divinely inspired by them.

Excuse me for the confusion, it's totally my fault....

I forgot that Christians are narrow minded and highly intolerant of other beliefs. It never occurred to me that you neither understood the concept of divinity nor understood that your savior isn't the only possible source.

Yes, numbers of northern brothers. Numbers mean something. Do you rely on Powerball or Social Security as your sole retirement plan? No, because of numbers, odds of numbers, trends in numbers, statistics, algebra, calculus, all that jazz.

As I stated before, numbers matter only in quantifiable measurements (number of soldiers, dollars in hnad), they do not determine right and wrong nor do the prove fact or fiction.

If everybody you know thinks the world is flat, does that make the world flat?


I hate to keep using the same example for you over and over again, but it is the clearest and most easily recognizable example of what I am trying to teach you.....and I REALLY don't think you are so stupid that you can't grasp the concept either. This is just another example of your willingness to play dumb when it comes to your beliefs.

There are twice as many people on Earth who say Christianity is wrong than there are who say it's right.....Are you wrong based on the numbers since you like to use the numbers as one of your justifications?

Currently I am among the majority on the planet who believes in the one Living God, the God of Abraham. Currently I am among the majority who believes that Jesus existed. The only thing that I am not among the majority is whether Jesus is the Christ ordained by the God that the majority already believe in. Not a slight subject, but the numbers look good to me. Actually they look great compared to those who worship Zeus or nothing. Yes this overwhelming consensus ranks high as evidence in my mind. Although it may have happened before, it isn’t easy to fool 2 billion people these days.

...and yet, you seem to think the 4 billion who do not view Jesus as the son of god to be easily fooled.

Simply put, you are not a majority, you are in the largest minority. The majority of the population, approximatly 2/3rd's or 4 billion, do not believe Jesus was the son of God

LOL, according to Wikipedia the Giza Pyramid is believed to have been constructed over a 20 year period concluding around 2560 BC However it is well known that it took less than one hundred years to build the oldest and only remaining member of the Seven Wonders of the World.

And the average lifespan of the ancient Egyptians was about 40 years, so unless the Architect started at the age of 10, then the same person isn't going to have designed 2 pyramids.

So my estimate was off by a few decades, my point still holds true.

The subject that I raised is the Giza pyramid. I never said that all Pyramids in Egypt are possible testaments to the coming of Christ. Just one. The Giza pyramid is the biggest, oldest, and most challenging pyramid to analyze scientifically and religously. It is very special by all accounts.

Hate to burst your bubble again, but it is not the oldest pyramid.

The oldest pyramid known, the Step Pyramid of King Zoser at Saqqara (c.2650 BC), has a large mastaba (tomb) as its nucleus and consists of six terraces of diminishing sizes, one built upon the other. It was surrounded by an elaborate complex of buildings, now partially restored, whose function related to the cult of the dead.

Nor was it any harder to analyze than any of the other pyramids....unless you are trying to incorporate totally unrelated events into it's creation, like the birth of Jesus for instance.

What about them? Science and Religion are not mutually exclusive. Religion is mutually inclusive with faith. Now what does that say about Science? Could science also be faith based? Some may see a miracle as being an unusual event. Others may see a miracle as a divine event. Others maybe require a miracle to be both unusual and divine intervention. I think we know where each other stands on this.

What about them is I want to discuss miracles you have witnessed or read that you have not witnessed a miracle. That would further proved my point that you believe because you have faith rather than undeniable evidence.

I've already concluded that you have not witnessed a miracle which cannot be explained by Science, but I'd prefer to read that in your own words.....confessions are a little more concrete than circumstantial evidence.....know what I mean, Vern?

As hard as you try, you cannot separate religion from faith. They are bound together just as you are bound to society. The Holy Bible was written by humans who were divinely inspired by God. Likewise I am a Christian because I am divinely inspired by God to be a Christian. Why do you think that the majority of leading scientists around the world believe in God? There is plenty of room for both science and religion in one head. How else can you explain the popularity of religion in a very growing scientific world? The answer is found in divine inspiration. When the scientific astronauts went to the moon, what did they do? They quoted divine scripture! Smart highly educated and trained astronauts and rocket scientists can be divinely inspired. What does that say to you? In fact, advancement in science lead to this inspiration and vice versa. God inspires scientists and he could inspire you if you listened. Like a radio station, you must tune in to hear anything.

I am not trying to separate religion from faith, I'm trying to make you understand that ALL you have is faith. You believe because you WANT to believe, not because you have undeniable proof of the existence of any omnipotent being.