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Old 05-31-2007, 12:02 AM   #31
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This entire situation is such a travesty! Why oh why did she have to kill her children? One by one tying those babies and hanging them...it's so gruesome and awful! I don't understand at all how any mother under any condition could kill her babies!!! May those babies be resting peacefully now in a better place!
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Texasbelle
Latenight it was a good ramble!

I don't want you to think that I find her actions acceptable or that I am ok with them. I am not by no stretch.
I certainly don't think that. And was not my intention to insinuate such.

It's just such a horrendous act. To do what she did.. It just takes an extreme understanding.. Your understanding... to take that leap. And I suppose you are right.

Bottom line, it's easier for me to accept, her mind was SO BROKEN from depression/psychosis that she could do such a thing.. than to believe there was ANY OTHER reason. It boggles the mind.

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Old 05-31-2007, 06:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Pocahontas
This entire situation is such a travesty! Why oh why did she have to kill her children? One by one tying those babies and hanging them...it's so gruesome and awful! I don't understand at all how any mother under any condition could kill her babies!!! May those babies be resting peacefully now in a better place!
Simply my whole point... Hope you don't get called uninformed or a Kool Aid drinker, too, Pocahontas.

BTW Great thoughts, LateNight!! Very well articulated heart felt reaction to this situation. Thanks for taking time to "take a hack at it".

Just because I don't jump to the mother's defense does not mean that I lack understanding of depression or haven't read up on statistics. I am a child advocate by career choice and by calling, and it is their perspective that I hold has priority. Mom's the adult killer. She chose to slip those nooses one by one around their necks. It is the children who need the compassion, only they have been denied the chance for their spirits to be lifted..
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:48 AM   #34
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TB, everyone here understand what you are saying. Depression is a harmful disease, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and for most of US, that line is on the other side of harming others in any shape or form and WAAAAY on the other side of hanging children. No argument's right?

When this woman decided to hang her children, the priority became removing her from society, not treating her condition.....which is what you appear to continue to emphasizing because you are an indirect victim of depression. We relate to the children, you're relating to the murderer because of events that have taken place in your life.


Just like in the Scott Peterson trial, I related to the guy being accused of murder without any hard evidence proving his guilt....and I STILL feel that way. There was no DNA evidence, no murder weapon, no bullet with ballistics testing matching it to a gun, the guy had already gotten away with 1 affair before, so there wasn't even a motive......and all of that probably sounds just as crazy to you as your story does to the rest of us...because most of you relate to the victim, not the perp....."What if that had been me and my baby".....right?

Events in my life have made me sympathetic to those who's guilt is acknowledged based on circumstantial evidence alone, regardless of the crime, just like yours have made you sympathetic to people suffering from depression regardless of how heinous their crimes may be......


I'm trying understanding today, but TB, at some point YOU have to realize everyone here is telling you basically the same thing, because we all know this approach is out of character for me and won't last very long.

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Old 05-31-2007, 07:06 AM   #35
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Well I think I edited the above post to death. The point is that we ALL have subjects it is impossible for us to be objective on.

For me it's evidence, for you, TB, it's depression, for Isaac it's religion, for Al it's guns.....and I would think these "conditions" if you will, are more than obvious about each of us to everyone here that's been paying attention.
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:16 AM   #36
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No Brain I am no advocating and standing by this woman and trying to justify what she did by no means. It was a heinous act. My sole point is that this mother in her right mind would not have done this. Period. My next point is for these people to get more help BEFORE they get to this point of killing others or themselves. There is not even professional help or compassion for the mentally ill just as there is no longer a belief in "innocent until proven guilty".
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Old 05-31-2007, 07:54 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Well I think I edited the above post to death. The point is that we ALL have subjects it is impossible for us to be objective on.

For me it's evidence, for you, TB, it's depression, for Isaac it's religion, for Al it's guns.....and I would think these "conditions" if you will, are more than obvious about each of us to everyone here that's been paying attention.
Thanks, Brain! It is truly about perspective and respecting each unique one.
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:51 AM   #38
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>My sole point is that this mother in her right mind would not have done this. Period.

Then your sole point is incredibly wrong. "Her right mind" from a legal standpoint is the ability to recognize that you are doing something wrong, and that covers plenty of otherwise "crazy" people. In fact, depression almost never results in legal insanity, because depression almost never results in an inability to differentiate between right and wrong. It may make you not care, but it doesn't cloud your judgment to that degree.
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Old 05-31-2007, 10:00 AM   #39
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Joepole, did you know that in cases of severe depression and severe post partum depression it often times can lead to psychosis and other mental disorders? I guess you did not.

No my point is not wrong. You honestly think this mother in her right mind would have likely done this? I think not and most of the rest of us agree at least on that much. There is a very fine thin line between legally sane and insane.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:26 AM   #40
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I did know that. Did you know that almost never happens?

>You honestly think this mother in her right mind would have likely done this

Depends on what definition of "right mind" you're using. By the legal standard of insanity? Certainly I think someone in "their right mind" could do that.

>There is a very fine thin line between legally sane and insane.

No, there's a very clear and concise line. I don't have the Texas statutes handy, but I bet the insanity defense it's similar to Louisiana's. If the circumstances indicate that because of a mental disease or mental defect the offender was incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong with reference to the conduct in question, the offender shall be exempt from criminal responsibility.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:39 PM   #41
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I sure am proud of myself for staying 100% out of this one!
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:50 PM   #42
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Hot coal here The mother passed a line that someone that has not been there would not ever understand. How after seeing one child hang could she do it twice more ?? The only good thing is the woman is dead and the rest is a tragedy I would love to see a follow up on this one to see if she had other problems that are not out in the press yet.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by rhertz
I sure am proud of myself for staying 100% out of this one!
Is that a chicken dog?
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:45 PM   #44
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I sure am proud of myself for staying 100% out of this one!
Hey rhertz would you please post what you told me in private about this thread I am sure the ladies would love to hear your wise thoughts
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Old 05-31-2007, 09:33 PM   #45
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Anime and Isaac, I usually have a whole lot of respect for the both of you but just lost some at this moment. Apparently it is obvious by both of your posts that you have never seen someone deep in the depths of serious depression and mental illness. I have as we know having had my mom committ suicide only within the last year. There are not words to explain what it is like for these people. I would have never ever ever thought my loving wonderful mom capable of such an act, but in the throes of her illness she obviously was. The one thing my family and I learned is there is not enough help out there for mentally ill patients and doctors are certainly not trained enough to deal with them.

In my reading of this story, no where did I read any references to this woman being on drugs. Did I miss something Isaac? I personally don't think we should speak ill of her when we don't know her situation. What I see when I read her story is a single mother with four children in dire circumstances. Where were people who could help her? I am sure there was someone who should have noticed something amiss with this woman. Where was the father of these children? Was he doing his part? Probably not. Have you ever been the single mother trying to take care of your children with no help from the father? I have and it's not easy and it's extremely depressing. I did pull myself up by the boot straps and did something about my situation. Everybody is not equipped perhaps like myself. Obviously she wasn't.

Yes, you can say she didn't have to kill her children. SHE WAS NOT IN HER RIGHT MIND. No mother in her right mind would. So please before you judge her and make your judgements please try and wonder what shoes was she walking in and how heavy they may have been.
Texasbelle, my sentiments, too.
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