Any smokers on the forum

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by joepole

I think you're confusing capitalism with free enterprise.

>Not really surprising from someone that campaigns for the right to beat off in public bathrooms. I had you pegged for a smoker though.

Smoking, like jerking off, is gross when other people do it. I would rather not have it near me, but it shouldn't be illegal.

Sure this makes sense. It makes sense to US. None of US would spank the monkey in public. But if you don't threaten to lock people up, there are plenty of people who would willingly whack it right in front of your children.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by LateNight

Regulations, regulations. Like has been said before.. Yes we need "laws". No I can't legally rob you, however, I should be free to do what I want as long as I cause you no harm. A restaurant owner should be allowed to create whatever type of establishment they want.. they should be allowed to have a smoke free environment, or allow smoking if they want.

The government goes about randomly setting restrictions like this, making these choices for us.. that's not how this is supposed to work. Half the time it doesn't make much sense.. Alcohol is legal, but I can't walk down the street and buy a bag of marijuana from my neighbor if I want to without fear of getting busted.

They pass laws saying we have to wear motorcycle helmets, or can't smoke here or there, or can't buy beer on sundays. Sure smoking is bad for you, and riding without a helmet can be dangerous.. Drinking alcohol is bad for you and can be dangerous, however this IS legal ?

It's this feeling that the government owns' your ass from cradle to the grave.. taxed to heck and back like they own you.

The more we expect the government to restrict, regulate etc.. the BIGGER government gets. The bigger the government gets, the more freedoms you start to lose.

I agree with you on most points. I hate taxes! I'm tired of footing the bill for wasteful welfare. I hate political pork, and I agree bigger government is a problem. But if the government did nothing to protect it's citizens, what kind of goverment would it be? Smoking and helmet laws, and to some extent alcohol and driving laws are not only about saving your a$$, but also about saving your a$$ money. Do you know how many millions of $$$ are spent caring for smoking related illnesses? What about long term care of brain injured motorcycle riders? Do you think that the majority of these people have insurance? They don't.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by piemaker720

Well Pokie I use to smoke but I have been quit now for 5 years. I did not quit for health reasons, I quit because I got tired of it and they started tasting bad. But I do think the now smoking ban is bad, if people want to smoke they should have that right. Who am I to tell someone else they can't? If I went to a place where someone was smoking it is my right whether I go in or not. If someone opened a smokers only restaurant someone would try to sue for discrimination and you know that. I really don't believe in telling someone else what they can do in their own house or car or with their kids unless they were physically abusing the child. And smoking in front of you kids is not abuse, sure maybe unhealthy, but not abuse. I find there is a problem now days with groups or churches running around trying to run other peoples lives, to me that is wrong.

Sorry Pie, but it's well documented in the medical literature that smoking kills people. Second hand or passive smoke has also been proven to kill people. So to me, smoking in a car with the windows up and children in the car is at worst attempted murder, and at best child abuse. Now you may not have done this, but I have personally seen it many times.

[piemaker720]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sorry Pie, but it's well documented in the medical literature that smoking kills people. Second hand or passive smoke has also been proven to kill people. So to me, smoking in a car with the windows up and children in the car is at worst attempted murder, and at best child abuse. Now you may not have done this, but I have personally seen it many times.

I don't believe in smoking with the windows rolled up either, but you say smoking kills, I know people that never smoked that die with the same diseases as non-smokers. Not only that but drinking kills, they once said chocolate causes cancer, fried foods- not good, sugar- not good, and the list can go on.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by piemaker720

I don't believe in smoking with the windows rolled up either, but you say smoking kills, I know people that never smoked that die with the same diseases as non-smokers. Not only that but drinking kills, they once said chocolate causes cancer, fried foods- not good, sugar- not good, and the list can go on.

Well you gotta die of something don't ya?

[piemaker720]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Well you gotta die of something don't ya?

No one lives forever, you may as well enjoy it the best you can and the way you choose to.

[AnimeSpirit]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Sorry Pie, but it's well documented in the medical literature that smoking kills people. Second hand or passive smoke has also been proven to kill people. So to me, smoking in a car with the windows up and children in the car is at worst attempted murder, and at best child abuse. Now you may not have done this, but I have personally seen it many times.

Sorry Pie, but I've been thinking over this debate after reading it and I agree with Morpheus. Exposing your children to cigarette smoke is right up there with exposing your child to alcohol. It is unhealthy and I would consider it abuse.

If you are contributing to the degradation of a child's health or well being (physical AND emotional), you are abusing that child. Smoking near a child does exactly that. It may not be as extreme as physically beating the child, but it is abuse, nonetheless.

Now, as I said before, I doubt we needs laws to govern this, but people should be this courteous (particularly to their own kids) without being told by the laws. If you want to toxify your body, that's your call and it is your right. However, it goes beyond your rights when you drag others into it against their will.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by piemaker720

No one lives forever, you may as well enjoy it the best you can and the way you choose to.

Okay I can go with that, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or cost them anything extra.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by AnimeSpirit

Now, as I said before, I doubt we needs laws to govern this, but people should be this courteous (particularly to their own kids) without being told by the laws.

I agree. If everyone did what they SHOULD do, we wouldn't need to have any laws. But that's not the world we live in, is it?

[Pocahontas]

Originally Posted by piemaker720

Well Pokie I use to smoke but I have been quit now for 5 years. I did not quit for health reasons, I quit because I got tired of it and they started tasting bad. But I do think the now smoking ban is bad, if people want to smoke they should have that right. Who am I to tell someone else they can't? If I went to a place where someone was smoking it is my right whether I go in or not. If someone opened a smokers only restaurant someone would try to sue for discrimination and you know that. I really don't believe in telling someone else what they can do in their own house or car or with their kids unless they were physically abusing the child. And smoking in front of you kids is not abuse, sure maybe unhealthy, but not abuse. I find there is a problem now days with groups or churches running around trying to run other peoples lives, to me that is wrong.

Notice I didn't say there should be laws against smoking with your kids in the house or car. I was stating how I disapprove of this practice. I so wish people would use good common sense and NOT expose their children unwillfully to this harmful habit! This to me is a form of abuse and just plain poor parenting!!

[piemaker720]

We talk about smoking and how bad it is that people do it for theiself and their kids. How many of us is guilty of giving these to ourself or our children? Should this also be considered abuse.? Obesity is a very big problem these days and how do our children become Obese?

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0..._all_costs.htm

If you need a little motivation to stay away from these most unhealthy foods, consider that four of the 10 leading causes of death in the United States are related to diet (diabetes, heart disease, cancer and stroke). And if you're looking to improve yours, cutting back on these six foods is a great place to start.

Soda.

An average can of soda has 10 teaspoons of sugar, 150 calories, 30 to 55 mg of caffeine, artificial food colors and sulphites. Diet sodas have the even-more-unhealthy artificial sweeteners. A major part of the problem is that sodas have become a staple in many people's diets. A study in the journal Pediatrics found that 56 percent to 85 percent of children consume at least one soft drink a day, and 20 percent of adolescent males drink four or more sodas a day.

In fact, CSPI has recently petitioned the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) calling for cigarette-style warnings on soft drinks to warn people of their potential health risks (weight gain, diabetes, tooth decay and more).

Potato chips and French fries.

These popular snack foods contain acrylamide, a known carcinogen and neurotoxin that is formed when foods are baked or fried at high temperatures. "I estimate that acrylamide causes several thousand cancers per year in Americans," said Clark University research professor Dale Hattis.

When CSPI conducted tests on some popular brands of French fries and chips, they found that the acrylamide in a large order of fast food fries was at least 300 times the amount allowed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in a glass of water.

These foods also contain trans fats, the artery-clogging fat that's been linked to raising bad cholesterol (and lowering the good kind), and increasing the risk of heart disease, diabetes, stroke and cancer.

Doughnuts.

Tasty, yes. But break a doughnut down and you'll find nothing more than refined sugar and flour, artificial flavors and partially hydrogenated oil that's loaded with trans fats. They have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

"When it comes to health, the only thing good about them is the hole," said Carla Wolper, nutritionist at the New York Obesity Research Center.

Coffee Cake and Other Baked Goods.

This category actually includes all varieties of baked goods, including packaged cake and biscuit mixes. What makes these foods so bad is that they almost always contain high amounts of trans fats and a host of other unsavory additives including corn syrup, preservatives and artificial flavors and colors. In fact, commercial baked goods typically contain more trans fats than any other food because not only are they often made with hydrogenated oils, they're fried in them too.

Luncheon Meats/Hot Dogs.

Processed meats like these (and others including sausages, bacon, pepperoni and other processed meats) contain a carcinogenic precursor ingredient known as sodium nitrite (sodium nitrate is closely related).

"Sodium nitrite is a dangerous, cancer-causing ingredient that has no place in the human food supply

Canned Soup.

Here we're talking about the traditional, canned soups you find in your grocery store. This may come as a surprise, but most canned (and packaged) soups have high levels of trans fats, sodium and artificial preservatives like MSG. Just one cup of canned soup can have almost 1,000 milligrams of salt (and most people eat more than one cup), which is tons considering dietary guidelines recommend consuming no more than 2,400 milligrams for the entire day.

WHITE FLOUR
White flour forms a sticky substance in the intestines and cardiovascular vessels, causes constipation and deregulates the digestive system. For a proper burning process you have to stay away as much as you can from white flour.
Products that contain white flour are: white bread, pizza, buns, pancakes, crepes e.g.

[Al Swearengen]

I agree with LateNight, whoever owns the business should be the one who decides whether to allow smokin. The only time I've really felt inconvenienced by the smokin ban was on the odd occassion I was at a bar. Seems to me that smokin and drinkin go hand in hand. Both are legal vices, both are potentially deadly, and both have been consumed in waterin holes since time began! I resent the hell out of the government stickin it's big nose where it dont belong.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

I agree with LateNight, whoever owns the business should be the one who decides whether to allow smokin. The only time I've really felt inconvenienced by the smokin ban was on the odd occassion I was at a bar. Seems to me that smokin and drinkin go hand in hand. Both are legal vices, both are potentially deadly, and both have been consumed in waterin holes since time began! I resent the hell out of the government stickin it's big nose where it dont belong.

You can still smoke in dedicated bars Al (i.e. bars without restaurants).

[vixweb]

I have to agree with LN here, I think we are OVER legislated....Too many liberal judges legislating from the bench- The term "free country" means less and less all the time

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by piemaker720

We talk about smoking and how bad it is that people do it for theiself and their kids. How many of us is guilty of giving these to ourself or our children? Should this also be considered abuse.? Obesity is a very big problem these days and how do our children become Obese?

Now you're getting the hang of it pie!

http://www.ronjones.org/Weblinks/childobesity.html

http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scri...sity_chil.html