Is The Controller To Blame For The Comair Crash?

sbl_admin · 08-31-2006, 08:08 AM

A federal investigator says the air traffic controller had worked for almost 15 hours and slept for two.
FOX_News

joepole · 09-21-2006, 10:42 AM

No, the responsibility for the safety of the aircraft begins and ends with the pilot.

LateNight · 09-21-2006, 11:13 AM

now I haven't been following this story closely at all. But is this the plane that tried taking off on too short of a runway ? From what little I remember hearing, it seems someone was looking at old information as far as the runway layout ?

yes, I agree the repsponsibility of the plane falls on the pilot, but when it comes to what runway do they taxi down and use for take off or landings, does that information not come from the Tower ?

Latenight.

scarlett · 09-21-2006, 11:19 AM

If I recall the story, they were clear for take-off and the pilot took the incorrect runway. If I am wrong someone correct me here I don't feel like going back and reread the story. I know a lawsuit was filed w/in one week of that happening.

I fear flying now and I just got over fear of flying w/in the past year. Sucks now!!! Pilot error I am honestly leaning towards but as I said I maybe wrong.

None of them get much sleep you have to think, your plane lands around 12AM that is very common and they have to fly out around 6am the next morning. That doesn't seem like a lot of sleep to me. Just like the Las Vegas flights you leave at 11:30PM but think of the time it really is when they go east. If you land EST you land around 8:30AM and do you think the pilots go to bed? They just flew all night even though that may have been a 5 hr. flight.

geodood · 09-21-2006, 02:01 PM

As a "techie", what I find most disturbing is that a simple $15 RFID tag the size of a pack of chewing gum embedded in the airplane, along with a $500 RFID tag reader embedded in the runway, could have prevented this airplane from taking off on the wrong runway. A simple alarm should have gone off in either the cockpit or tower (or both), just as if a burgular tried to open the wrong window in a home with an alarm installed.

This is not "rocket science" as they say. If Fedex, Walmart, and UPS can route boxes with barcodes and RFID tags, then why can't an airport route airplanes the same way? (as a backup measure of course) I agree that the responsibility lies with the Captain to make sure he is steering the plane correctly. But it never hurts to backup humans with alarm mechanisms. Heck even a set of pressure sensors on the taxiways, or Infrared "eye" across the runway would work. These are ancient technologies. LOL, my garage door will not close if there is an obstruction in the way of the Infrared LED beam.

joepole · 09-21-2006, 04:01 PM

The pilot was using an airport chart that was 6 or 9 months out of date.

>I fear flying now and I just got over fear of flying w/in the past year.

Why do you fear flying now? The fact that accidents like this are rare enough to be big news should clue you in to the fact that air travel is incredibly safe. You're a lot more likely to get killed sitting at your computer right now than you are likely to get killed on a commercial aircraft.

joepole · 09-21-2006, 04:03 PM

>why can't an airport route airplanes the same way?

Because it would be waste of time, effort, and money. Accidents like this don't happen enough to worry about.

scarlett · 09-21-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole

The pilot was using an airport chart that was 6 or 9 months out of date.

>I fear flying now and I just got over fear of flying w/in the past year.

Why do you fear flying now? The fact that accidents like this are rare enough to be big news should clue you in to the fact that air travel is incredibly safe. You're a lot more likely to get killed sitting at your computer right now than you are likely to get killed on a commercial aircraft.

I really have to disagree with better chances of getting killed at my computer desk than flying. The only way i could die due to me having my .38 next to me incase someone comes in and believe me i will win, someone drops a bomb on this house and I live in a 2-story so I don't believe anyone will be running their car into my house and me being affected by it if they do. The only way I will die at this computer is if an airplane decides to crash in this subdivision. Either way I could be killed in or by an airplane.

A pilot making a mistake as this one did makes my fear go up it's called attention to detail and he didn't have this.

kansast · 09-21-2006, 04:53 PM

LOL I have to agree with Scarlett on this one. For me, my problem with flying is about the same problem I have with being in a car when someone else is driving.. the loss of control.

Not to mention something as big as a plane has no business floatin' around up there.. just waiting for gravity to SUCK IT BACK DOWN the first chance it gets

Now I've been on plenty of plane rides in my time. But it has been some time since I've been on one, and have no real desire to get back on one. Perhaps one of these days.

geodood · 09-21-2006, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joepole

>why can't an airport route airplanes the same way?
Because it would be waste of time, effort, and money. Accidents like this don't happen enough to worry about.

But when accidents do happen, it's bad for the airline business (not to mention the loss of life, no matter how relatively small it is)

OK, I have the answer... Tom Tom Go! Lots of new cars have GPS navigation systems that show (and tell) the driver where he is and were to go. Why don't commercial airplanes use GPS nav systems on the ground at busy (and not so busy) commercial taxiways? I figured the technology in a cockpit is at least as comprehensive as an average luxury car. It's hard to get it wrong when you keep the triangle on the red line, plus an alarm can go off if you are off track. I mean come on, farm tractors use GPS nav systems to make pretty clean crop rows. Even single engine crop duster airplanes have GPS nav systems to help them provide even coverage with less waste.

Al Swearengen · 09-22-2006, 03:53 AM

Ya always hear about how "rare" it is for an airplane to crash. Yeah yeah, I know...its all relative. But I dont think a damn day goes by that we dont hear about an airplane crashing SOMEWHERE on the globe. And the number of folks that "buy it" when a plane goes down sorta shakes out...sure, theres umpteen car accidents every day, but youre talking about one or two folks per accident, whereas when a plane crashes it might be carrying 200 people...and that plane carrying 200 souls might just land on top of a school full of kids or something. And now the chances are about even that you'll end up on the flight with the hijackers on board...or there'll be some guy on the ground with a Stinger shooting at ya....Theres just a higher body-count potential... Hell I dont know.

scarlett · 09-22-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

Ya always hear about how "rare" it is for an airplane to crash. Yeah yeah, I know...its all relative. But I dont think a damn day goes by that we dont hear about an airplane crashing SOMEWHERE on the globe. And the number of folks that "buy it" when a plane goes down sorta shakes out...sure, theres umpteen car accidents every day, but youre talking about one or two folks per accident, whereas when a plane crashes it might be carrying 200 people...and that plane carrying 200 souls might just land on top of a school full of kids or something. And now the chances are about even that you'll end up on the flight with the hijackers on board...or there'll be some guy on the ground with a Stinger shooting at ya....Theres just a higher body-count potential... Hell I dont know.

That is exactly how I feel, you will loose 200 or 100 or whatever is on board to a crash vs 1-2 people in a car crash. The one guy that survived this crash I feel for him but at the same time I am happy he did make it out alive.

it's just scary to fly period you just never know when it's your time and I don't want to leave any quicker than I have to.

joepole · 09-22-2006, 11:35 AM

>I dont think a damn day goes by that we dont hear about an airplane crashing SOMEWHERE on the globe

You're kidding, right? Commercial aviation crashes are exceedingly rare in every country.

Al Swearengen · 09-24-2006, 09:05 PM

Yeah..so exceedingly rare that it happens on a daily basis.

joepole · 09-25-2006, 02:32 PM

It does?

Where did one happen today? Yesterday?

08-31-2006, 08:08 AM	#1
sbl_admin Administrator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 1,965 Rep Power: 260	Is The Controller To Blame For The Comair Crash? A federal investigator says the air traffic controller had worked for almost 15 hours and slept for two. FOX_News

09-21-2006, 10:42 AM	#2
joepole SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,606 Rep Power: 259	Comair Controller responsibility No, the responsibility for the safety of the aircraft begins and ends with the pilot.

09-21-2006, 04:01 PM	#6
joepole SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,606 Rep Power: 259	Wrong runway The pilot was using an airport chart that was 6 or 9 months out of date. >I fear flying now and I just got over fear of flying w/in the past year. Why do you fear flying now? The fact that accidents like this are rare enough to be big news should clue you in to the fact that air travel is incredibly safe. You're a lot more likely to get killed sitting at your computer right now than you are likely to get killed on a commercial aircraft.

09-21-2006, 04:03 PM	#7
joepole SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,606 Rep Power: 259	prevention >why can't an airport route airplanes the same way? Because it would be waste of time, effort, and money. Accidents like this don't happen enough to worry about.

09-21-2006, 04:53 PM	#9
kansast Advanced Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Shreveport, LA Posts: 108 Rep Power: 224	LOL I have to agree with Scarlett on this one. For me, my problem with flying is about the same problem I have with being in a car when someone else is driving.. the loss of control. Not to mention something as big as a plane has no business floatin' around up there.. just waiting for gravity to SUCK IT BACK DOWN the first chance it gets Now I've been on plenty of plane rides in my time. But it has been some time since I've been on one, and have no real desire to get back on one. Perhaps one of these days. __________________ KansasT ------------------ "Up stairs the band was playin' and the singer was singin' somethin' 'bout going home"

09-21-2006, 11:13 AM	#3
LateNight SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,609 Rep Power: 268	now I haven't been following this story closely at all. But is this the plane that tried taking off on too short of a runway ? From what little I remember hearing, it seems someone was looking at old information as far as the runway layout ? yes, I agree the repsponsibility of the plane falls on the pilot, but when it comes to what runway do they taxi down and use for take off or landings, does that information not come from the Tower ? Latenight.

09-21-2006, 11:19 AM	#4
scarlett Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 474 Rep Power: 234	If I recall the story, they were clear for take-off and the pilot took the incorrect runway. If I am wrong someone correct me here I don't feel like going back and reread the story. I know a lawsuit was filed w/in one week of that happening. I fear flying now and I just got over fear of flying w/in the past year. Sucks now!!! Pilot error I am honestly leaning towards but as I said I maybe wrong. None of them get much sleep you have to think, your plane lands around 12AM that is very common and they have to fly out around 6am the next morning. That doesn't seem like a lot of sleep to me. Just like the Las Vegas flights you leave at 11:30PM but think of the time it really is when they go east. If you land EST you land around 8:30AM and do you think the pilots go to bed? They just flew all night even though that may have been a 5 hr. flight.

09-21-2006, 02:01 PM	#5
geodood Advanced Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 166 Rep Power: 223	As a "techie", what I find most disturbing is that a simple $15 RFID tag the size of a pack of chewing gum embedded in the airplane, along with a $500 RFID tag reader embedded in the runway, could have prevented this airplane from taking off on the wrong runway. A simple alarm should have gone off in either the cockpit or tower (or both), just as if a burgular tried to open the wrong window in a home with an alarm installed. This is not "rocket science" as they say. If Fedex, Walmart, and UPS can route boxes with barcodes and RFID tags, then why can't an airport route airplanes the same way? (as a backup measure of course) I agree that the responsibility lies with the Captain to make sure he is steering the plane correctly. But it never hurts to backup humans with alarm mechanisms. Heck even a set of pressure sensors on the taxiways, or Infrared "eye" across the runway would work. These are ancient technologies. LOL, my garage door will not close if there is an obstruction in the way of the Infrared LED beam.

09-22-2006, 03:53 AM	#11
Al Swearengen Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 849 Rep Power: 247	Ya always hear about how "rare" it is for an airplane to crash. Yeah yeah, I know...its all relative. But I dont think a damn day goes by that we dont hear about an airplane crashing SOMEWHERE on the globe. And the number of folks that "buy it" when a plane goes down sorta shakes out...sure, theres umpteen car accidents every day, but youre talking about one or two folks per accident, whereas when a plane crashes it might be carrying 200 people...and that plane carrying 200 souls might just land on top of a school full of kids or something. And now the chances are about even that you'll end up on the flight with the hijackers on board...or there'll be some guy on the ground with a Stinger shooting at ya....Theres just a higher body-count potential... Hell I dont know.

09-22-2006, 11:35 AM	#13
joepole SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,606 Rep Power: 259	Accident rate >I dont think a damn day goes by that we dont hear about an airplane crashing SOMEWHERE on the globe You're kidding, right? Commercial aviation crashes are exceedingly rare in every country.

09-24-2006, 09:05 PM	#14
Al Swearengen Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 849 Rep Power: 247	Yeah..so exceedingly rare that it happens on a daily basis.

09-25-2006, 02:32 PM	#15
joepole SBLive! Veteran Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,606 Rep Power: 259	Commercial Aviation Crashes It does? Where did one happen today? Yesterday?

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