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Old 11-30-2007, 09:14 PM   #61
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I have tried to keep from commenting on this thread topic but the views are getting rediculous. I have nothing against Christianity or Paganism. To sit here and argue about things you could not possibly prove is pointless. I know there is no one who could actually prove there is a heaven or hell. I know of no one that has actually seen it for themselves. I also know you can not prove reincarnation, I have never seen anyone die and come back as something else. You believe what you believe because it is what you read in books or was told. As for as the weakminded they can be swayed either way, they have free will just like the rest of us. I grew up going to The Assembly of God [my dad], my mother is Morman, my step-father was Baptist and I know some Pagans as far as I am concerned I don't care what a person believes in as long as they don't try to push their beliefs on me. A vast difference is what makes up this world so to each his own. Close minded people contribute to the distant between people. The arguement about what came first the egg or the chicken who can prove it. Educate yourself even if that is not your belief then you can at least carry on a conversation with others. Enough said.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:32 PM   #62
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A vast difference is what makes up this world so to each his own. Close minded people contribute to the distant between people. The arguement about what came first the egg or the chicken who can prove it. Educate yourself even if that is not your belief then you can at least carry on a conversation with others. Enough said.
That's my point, exactly. No one is saying that research must lead to conversion, but keeping an open mind and gathering some knowledge on others allows you to relate more easily when you interact with people who are different. This leads to peaceful conversation, understanding, and tolerance, things that we all need more and more each day.
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:37 PM   #63
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I'm trying to educate myself a little. Why does the pentacle or pentagram seem to be synonymous with the devil whereas Pagans use the symbol as well and don't believe in devil worship, right?
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Old 12-01-2007, 12:35 AM   #64
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I'm trying to educate myself a little. Why does the pentacle or pentagram seem to be synonymous with the devil whereas Pagans use the symbol as well and don't believe in devil worship, right?
Since you ask out of curiosity, I'd be happy to explain. You're certainly not the first person to ask me about this and not likely to be the last.

First, the "pentagram" is a simple five-pointed star, nothing more. It's the same one we all learned to draw as a child and the same one we see on the American flag and carried by many police officers as badges. When a circle is placed around this star, it becomes the "Pentacle," the primary religious icon for most Pagan paths (yes, there are many various Pagan paths).

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The pentacle represents the 5 elements that make up all things in our world: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. We have all of these within us and without them, life could not exist. The point of the star facing straight up represents spirit, or that spark of the Divine that we all carry. By placing this point above the others (material elements), we concede that the divine rules over the Earth.

Just as Satanic groups use the reversed cross, they also use the Baphomet, or reversed pentacle (often with a goathead on it). By placing the spirit point down, they are claiming that humans are greater than the Divine. As I don't practice this, or know anyone who does, I cannot intelligently speak any more than that on Satanism, but that's their connection to the pentacle.

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Old 12-01-2007, 06:44 AM   #65
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If you side with ascension without even learning about reincarnation, then you kinda prove my point. I'm not going to accuse anyone of being a spoonfed Christian, though, but they are out there. You'd be amazed how many people brought up in Christian homes never even considered learning about another religion, be it Paganism, Buddhism, Muslim or any other world religion. I've known my fair share of Christians here in the South that not only have no interest in world religion, but consider having such topics in their presence highly offensive. I, myself, have almost been removed from households just for admitting that I'm a Pagan.

I am not generalizing by any means, mind you. We've all seen how intolerant Muslims can be as well and such lack of understanding, I think, is where the problem lies.

If you have spent the hours you say you have on reading the understanding your path and it has led you to deeper belief, then you are where you should be, nuf said. Still, it doesn't hurt to take an interest in other religious practices. No one is asking you to convert, mind you, but having some knowledge brings about an aura of interest, empathy, and understanding that really helps fill the gap between people of different cultures.

Please note that I said I don't know MUCH. Not that I don't know ANYTHING. In fact, I have researched several different religions - just to understand what people believe. You are correct in saying that there are some spoonfed Christians out there, but there are also Spoonfed Pagans, Muslims, etc. It is what you make it.

Please also know and understand that I am not here to down anyone and their beliefs. One GREAT thing about AMERICA is that we are FREE to choose how we worship or what we believe. I can honestly say that I have learned a little more on reincarnation from this post, I still fail to see the simalarity to ascension. I guess more research is needed

Last edited by Princess Leia; 12-01-2007 at 06:57 AM. Reason: adding another statement
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:56 AM   #66
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One of the ways other religions attack Christianity is this turn the other cheek mentality. Wrong I am not going to change the standard of my faith to accommodate any other religion. I too have read about every religion I can find to read about. They do all have one common theme they are jealous that our Father did not choose them as his number one people. Not to say they too can have the same salvation but not the seed line the Redeemer would come through. It is written in the Bible and in the stars. The false Baal Priest did not do well when they challenged the hand of God !

Deuteronomy 32:9-12
9 For the LORD’S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.

11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:

12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
http://www.carm.org/kjv/Deut/Deut_32.htm

Every Christian should know this chapter like the back of your hand.

Jacob blesses Ephraim and Manasseh
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Ephraim (UK) and Manasseh (USA) the Ten northern tribes.

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Old 12-01-2007, 09:06 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by AnimeSpirit View Post
Since you ask out of curiosity, I'd be happy to explain. You're certainly not the first person to ask me about this and not likely to be the last.

First, the "pentagram" is a simple five-pointed star, nothing more. It's the same one we all learned to draw as a child and the same one we see on the American flag and carried by many police officers as badges. When a circle is placed around this star, it becomes the "Pentacle," the primary religious icon for most Pagan paths (yes, there are many various Pagan paths).

Attachment 1910

The pentacle represents the 5 elements that make up all things in our world: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and Spirit. We have all of these within us and without them, life could not exist. The point of the star facing straight up represents spirit, or that spark of the Divine that we all carry. By placing this point above the others (material elements), we concede that the divine rules over the Earth.

Just as Satanic groups use the reversed cross, they also use the Baphomet, or reversed pentacle (often with a goathead on it). By placing the spirit point down, they are claiming that humans are greater than the Divine. As I don't practice this, or know anyone who does, I cannot intelligently speak any more than that on Satanism, but that's their connection to the pentacle.

Attachment 1909
Thanks Anime! I'm really glad you don't use Satan in your worship!
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:16 AM   #68
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One of the ways other religions attack Christianity is this turn the other cheek mentality. Wrong I am not going to change the standard of my faith to accommodate any other religion. I too have read about every religion I can find to read about. They do all have one common theme they are jealous that our Father did not choose them as his number one people. Not to say they too can have the same salvation but not the seed line the Redeemer would come through. It is written in the Bible and in the stars. The false Baal Priest did not do well when they challenged the hand of God !

Deuteronomy 32:9-12
9 For the LORD’S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.

11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:

12 So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
http://www.carm.org/kjv/Deut/Deut_32.htm

Every Christian should know this chapter like the back of your hand.

Jacob blesses Ephraim and Manasseh
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Ephraim (UK) and Manasseh (USA) the Ten northern tribes.

Maranatha

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Old 12-01-2007, 02:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon View Post
One of the ways other religions attack Christianity is this turn the other cheek mentality. Wrong I am not going to change the standard of my faith to accommodate any other religion. I too have read about every religion I can find to read about. They do all have one common theme they are jealous that our Father did not choose them as his number one people.
Please don't be offended by my saying so, Isaac, but I find it amusing that you consider the "turn the other cheek" mentality an attack when the "turn the other cheek" concept originated from Jesus Christ himself. -Matthew 5:38-42, NIV, The Sermon on the Mount.

Seriously Isaac, is it really your opinion that I or my fellow Pagans are jealous of Christians?

I can't speak for other religions, but Paganism is an extremely flexible practice. Craft users are allowed to live their lives any way they wish so long as they follow the Pagan's Rede, "As you harm none, do as you will." This is an extremely tall order that includes every possible definition of the word "harm." You could say that it's our "One Commandment."

Jealousy plays no role in the path whatsoever. To be jealous of another person or group is a personal choice. I've never seen any Pagan group or body instruct its followers to be jealous of others. What would be the point?
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:03 PM   #70
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I can't speak for other religions, but Paganism is an extremely flexible practice. Craft users are allowed to live their lives any way they wish so long as they follow the Pagan's Rede, "As you harm none, do as you will." This is an extremely tall order that includes every possible definition of the word "harm." You could say that it's our "One Commandment."
That speaks volumes by its' self. What a SHALLOW interpretation of reality! And easy- So, basically, you believe that when you die you will come back as a butterfly or a tree? Is what you come back as totaly random, or does it concern your "kharma"? Again, good luck with that.....
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Old 12-01-2007, 06:41 PM   #71
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That speaks volumes by its' self. What a SHALLOW interpretation of reality! And easy- So, basically, you believe that when you die you will come back as a butterfly or a tree? Is what you come back as totaly random, or does it concern your "kharma"? Again, good luck with that.....
I'm not sure what you mean by saying the Rede is "shallow," but it's certainly a tall order. It includes everything that the ten commandments include and much more. It implies that the only evil we have to worry about is the suffering that we do to each other. It places the responsibility for our wrong decisions on our own shoulders and our free will and not in the hands of some evil entity or devil (whom Pagans don't even acknowledge).

As for what our vessels are, that depends entirely on your tradition. Some traditions honor animals to such a degree that they'd consider it an honor to reincarnate as an animal (i.e. wolves, lions, tiger, etc.). On the other hand, some trads believe human souls only reincarnate as other humans. Some trads even believe that the individual soul chooses its vessel before rebirth.

I, for one, could care less what I came back as. When it happens, I won't know the difference.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:02 PM   #72
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Please don't be offended by my saying so, Isaac, but I find it amusing that you consider the "turn the other cheek" mentality an attack when the "turn the other cheek" concept originated from Jesus Christ himself. -Matthew 5:38-42, NIV, The Sermon on the Mount.

Seriously Isaac, is it really your opinion that I or my fellow Pagans are jealous of Christians?

I can't speak for other religions, but Paganism is an extremely flexible practice. Craft users are allowed to live their lives any way they wish so long as they follow the Pagan's Rede, "As you harm none, do as you will." This is an extremely tall order that includes every possible definition of the word "harm." You could say that it's our "One Commandment."

Jealousy plays no role in the path whatsoever. To be jealous of another person or group is a personal choice. I've never seen any Pagan group or body instruct its followers to be jealous of others. What would be the point?
I got your other cheek Anime. I will not walk in your house and attack your religion and if I did I would turn the other cheek. If you walk in my house and attack my faith I would knock you on your ass. I know you would not do that but that is my point. Christians are not door mats and I do not have to be a nice guy all the time. When it comes to what I believe as you have seen I will hold the line with no apologies. Yes other countries and peoples are jealous of the USA and UK I hope you can see that
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:23 PM   #73
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I got your other cheek Anime. I will not walk in your house and attack your religion and if I did I would turn the other cheek. If you walk in my house and attack my faith I would knock you on your ass. I know you would not do that but that is my point. Christians are not door mats and I do not have to be a nice guy all the time. When it comes to what I believe as you have seen I will hold the line with no apologies.
If you came into my house and attacked my religion, you wouldn't be in the position to turn the other cheek or not as you'd be the one attacking me. If I came into your house and attacked your religion, I'd be stupid not to expect a good @$$ kicking on the way because I'd be very rude and disrespectful. In either case, whether it's you or me turning the other cheek, it is in no way an attack on Christianity.

I'm not a doormat either, Isaac, and I certainly don't expect you to be. My patience and tolerance of direct, intentional rudeness and dishonor (regardless of the basis of such conduct) are quite limited. When that line is crossed I'd gladly welcome the bad karma that comes with giving some jerk the @$$kicking of his life for insulting or dishonoring me. It's a matter of respect and propriety, not religion.

I have far more patience for people who accidentally insult me out of ignorance or curiosity. I let those slide all the time without a second thought.

Now that we're past that, let's talking about religious intolerance for a moment. No one here is insulting anyone's religion. I have no more against Christianity than I do against any other world religion. I have total faith in my own practice, but I am not rude or disrespectful enough to put down anyone else's beliefs. "To each, his own." Anyone who tries to deny religious freedom to someone else for ANY reason, in my book, is on the list with Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden.

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Yes other countries and peoples are jealous of the USA and UK I hope you can see that
Yes, I can agree that there are countries that are jealous of the American way of life, but not because of religion. I do not consider myself more precious to the divine simply because of where I live.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:25 PM   #74
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I got your other cheek Anime. I will not walk in your house and attack your religion and if I did I would turn the other cheek. If you walk in my house and attack my faith I would knock you on your ass. I know you would not do that but that is my point. Christians are not door mats and I do not have to be a nice guy all the time. When it comes to what I believe as you have seen I will hold the line with no apologies. Yes other countries and peoples are jealous of the USA and UK I hope you can see that
I don't know about Anime but I for one don't like your post. I have not read anywhere on this thread someone calling a christian a door mat. Futhermore you are the only one that is talking knocking people on their ass. I don't see anywhere where your religion is being attacked. You are sounding more like someone from another country, talk about my religion and I'll kill you. I don't have to be nice either but if this is what christianity teaches people to act like then I don't want no part of it. I also have your other cheek. I don't believe in attacking someone's beliefs but I also try not to be rude.
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:33 PM   #75
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here we go
LateNight I don't always agree with you, but you called this one, didn't you?
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