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Old 08-01-2007, 05:26 AM   #1
Al Swearengen
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Tom Cryer, Dr. Elaine and Ed Brown

Ok, I'm gonna try this again. Nobody wants to talk about this, and I cant for the life of me figure out WHY. Everybody SHOULD be talking about it! But there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the taxation of income. What this means is that we've all been lied to and ripped off for years. People pay income tax chiefly out of fear of losing their freedom and property, NOT because the law says they should. When challenged to show the law that authorizes the government to tax income, the IRS's reply is "no comment". They CANT! The federal government has simply side-stepped the U.S. Constitution and involved themselves with issues they have no business being involved in for the sole purpose of control.

I'm sick of the apathy. If we dont all stand together, we'll all fall together.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:33 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Ok, I'm gonna try this again. Nobody wants to talk about this, and I cant for the life of me figure out WHY. Everybody SHOULD be talking about it! But there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the taxation of income. What this means is that we've all been lied to and ripped off for years. People pay income tax chiefly out of fear of losing their freedom and property, NOT because the law says they should. When challenged to show the law that authorizes the government to tax income, the IRS's reply is "no comment". They CANT! The federal government has simply side-stepped the U.S. Constitution and involved themselves with issues they have no business being involved in for the sole purpose of control.

I'm sick of the apathy. If we dont all stand together, we'll all fall together.
Very interesting, I'll do some research on this.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:49 AM   #3
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>there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the taxation of income.

Except, of course, for the part that specifically does:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
Except, of course, for the part that specifically does:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
That would be Ammendment 16, ratified 1913. It looks legitimate to me.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:57 AM   #5
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Also Article I, Section 8:


The Congress shall have power...to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:05 AM   #6
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Actually, I think Tom Cryers winning of his case, came down to his argument on exactly "What is income"
I believe it was something like he proved that the definition of Income as defined by the supreme court is NOT income from our labor, but rather things like interest and profit. You CANNOT tax a persons labor because it is a God given right that we may work to support ourselves.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:29 AM   #7
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Maybe, but to say "there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the taxation of income" is just flat-out wrong.

The local guy had an interesting argument that won't survive appeal because it was so obviously wrong. The main problem with juries is that most people are stupid.
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Old 08-01-2007, 12:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Ok, I'm gonna try this again. Nobody wants to talk about this, and I cant for the life of me figure out WHY. Everybody SHOULD be talking about it! But there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the taxation of income. What this means is that we've all been lied to and ripped off for years. People pay income tax chiefly out of fear of losing their freedom and property, NOT because the law says they should. When challenged to show the law that authorizes the government to tax income, the IRS's reply is "no comment". They CANT! The federal government has simply side-stepped the U.S. Constitution and involved themselves with issues they have no business being involved in for the sole purpose of control.

I'm sick of the apathy. If we dont all stand together, we'll all fall together.
I get what you are saying, however I don't know enough about it to comment intelligently. (IANAL) I do feel that there ain't no way in hell the feds are going to give up trillions in income and downsize drastically so they can reduce or eliminate income tax. Historically speaking, about the only time I see a drastic reduction in the size of government is when it is defeated during a war or revolution. And in order to do that, you need the military on your side.

Even at the state level with budget excesses, Blanco will not give a tax break to businesses. Then she flies off to England to look for new business to come to our state. Go figure.....
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:03 PM   #9
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I think I will continue to pay my taxes.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:18 PM   #10
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Since we all know the income tax will NEVER go away , What do y'all think about a "flat tax" say...10% ?
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #11
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A flat tax would be great, but 10% is way too low. I wish we lived in a country that could survive on a flat tax of 10%. 40% is more realistic.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
A flat tax would be great, but 10% is way too low. I wish we lived in a country that could survive on a flat tax of 10%. 40% is more realistic.
I agree with you, all things being equal. But imagine what might happen to our economy with a flat tax or fair tax at around 20% to 25%. The economy would really soar. If the economy doubled, then revenues at 20% would equal the 40% mark in our old tax burdened system. I'm just saying the there are two ways to increase government revenues, raise tax rates or help taxpayers make more money. I prefer the second method.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:05 PM   #13
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The economy would not soar, it would likely collapse. It's an admirable goal, but one that would take decades to achieve.
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