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Old 10-03-2007, 07:07 PM   #46
Al Swearengen
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I've said this many times, but I'll say it again for the sake of clarity and definition. Our leaders, the powers that be, have been foistin this "War On Terror" nonsense off on the general public since 911. But terrorism aint a regime, it aint a dictator...its a tactic, a method, a means to an end employed by those who seek change thru fear. Callin it the "War On Terror" is a whole hell of alot more PC than callin it what it really is, which is war on radical Islam. We all know that religious extremism of any kind is a threat to freedom, but here, now, in the modern age, it is the radical Islamists that pose the greatest threat to peace-lovin people not just here in the U.S., but everywhere around the globe. Are there Islamic radicals in Iraq? Ya bet your ass. They're also found in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia...especially our good buddies the Saudis...everywhere Islam is practiced. We as a nation can not eradicate the threat by occupyin foreign lands usin our young people in uniform as a police force (somethin they're not trained for). The reason this strategy is failin is because the enemy is insideously integrated into the population of the country. In other words, they blend in so well that we cant see em until they rear their diaper-shrouded nappy little heads. Now, the natives could expose the extremists, makin em easier for us to spot...and they sometimes do. But for the most part, the native civilian non-combatants stay mum about it out of fear of retaliation. As if that werent bad enough, the natives are startin to resent our presence in their country, just as we would resent any occupyin force, regardless of whether that force claimed to be "helpin" us. To sum it up, our current game plan just aint workin. We're losin way too many of our precious young people with nothin to show for it. And the bad guys can keep this up alot longer than we can, because they have the home field advantage. We cant afford to lose any more soldiers with the tragically ineffective strategy we're usin now.

In addition, we need to look at who seems to be benefitin the most from this foolhardy venture, which seems to be the good ole boys at Halliburton, the Carlyle Group, and the various other defense contractors. Think about that...Bush and Cheney are linin their pockets with all that blood money. They're gettin filthy rich in this fiasco at the expense of our sons and daughters. We did the right thing when we took down Saddam and his boys. We did for Iraq what they could not do for themselves. But now its time to hand it off to the Iraqis and let em make of it what they will. If they screw it up again, thats on them, and we should'nt bail em out a second time.
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Old 10-03-2007, 07:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I've said this many times, but I'll say it again for the sake of clarity and definition. Our leaders, the powers that be, have been foistin this "War On Terror" off onto the general public. Terrorism aint a regime, it aint a dictator...its a tactic, a method, a means to an end employed by those who seek change thru fear. Callin it the "War On Terror" is a whole hell of alot more PC than callin it what it really is, which is war on radical Islam. We all know that religious extremism of any kind is a threat to freedom, but here, now, in the modern age, it is the radical Islamists that pose the greatest threat to peace-lovin people not just here in the U.S., but everywhere around the globe. Are there Islamic radicals in Iraq? Ya bet your ass. They're also found in Iran, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia...especially our good buddies the Saudis...everywhere Islam is practiced. We as a nation can not eradicate the threat by occupyin foreign lands usin our young people in uniform as a police force (somethin they're not trained for). The reason this strategy is failin is because the enemy is insideously integrated into the population of the country. In other words, they blend in so well that we cant see em until they rear their diaper-shrouded nappy little heads. Now, the natives could expose the extremists, makin em easier for us to spot...and they sometimes do. But for the most part, the native civilian non-combatants stay mum about it out of fear of retaliation. As if that werent bad enough, the natives are startin to resent our presence in their country, just as we would resent any occupyin force, regardless of whether that force claimed to be "helpin" us. To sum it up, our current game plan just aint workin. We're losin way too many of our precious young people with nothin to show for it. And the bad guys can keep this up alot longer than we can, because they have the home field advantage. We cant afford to lose any more soldiers with the tragically ineffective strategy we're usin now.

In addition, we need to look at who seems to be benefitin the most from this foolhardy venture, which seems to be the good ole boys at Halliburton and the various Defense Contractors. Think about that...Bush and Cheney are linin their pockets with all that blood money. They're gettin filthy rich in this fiasco at the expense of our sons and daughters. We did the right thing when we took down Saddam and his boys. We did for Iraq what they could not do for themselves. But now its time to hand it off to the Iraqis and let em make of it what they will. If they screw it up again, thats on them, and we should'nt bail em out a second time.

This is exactly what I'm freakin' talkin' about !!!! Could not have said it any better..
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:00 AM   #48
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REALLY? "Bush and Cheney are linin there pockets with blood money"?! Come-on.....Yes, Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton. Thats the kind of person we need as Vice President. The fact that he ran the largest oil company in the world, well and without scandals, just shows his credentials for leadership and decision making. The fact that Halliburton is making alot of money off the blood of others is BECAUSE they are the most experienced and well-equipped for that kind of work. Tell me WHO else could handle it? That Cheney profits from his benefits package is not a problem for me, and I CERTAINLY do not think it had anything to do with this war.
I do agree with most of AL's other points, but....I wouldn't care if we had to "police" every country out there-if thats what we need to do to protect ourselves. Remember that these Islamic extremists want to kill us. They hate us for several reasons, but mostly because we(Americans and Christians in general) are everything their religion tells them they will be, I.E; They are taught that they are superior to us in everyway, and that they will in essence, rule the earth. In order for their "prophecies" to come true, they must either kill us or convert us-Of course their REAL enemy is the jew, and the fact that we WILL help save them from these same extremists, gives them a special hatred for America. This war is MUCH deeper than "blood money".
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:41 AM   #49
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REALLY? "Bush and Cheney are linin there pockets with blood money"?! Come-on.....Yes, Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton. Thats the kind of person we need as Vice President. The fact that he ran the largest oil company in the world, well and without scandals, just shows his credentials for leadership and decision making. The fact that Halliburton is making alot of money off the blood of others is BECAUSE they are the most experienced and well-equipped for that kind of work. Tell me WHO else could handle it? That Cheney profits from his benefits package is not a problem for me, and I CERTAINLY do not think it had anything to do with this war.
So big business, particularly big oil, is the most experienced and well-equipped entity at makin money off the blood of our troops? What a disturbin philosophy ya have there, Vix! I've got a better idea...how about we leave that unpleasant task to a responsible elected leadership who's actions and decisions are predicated on the U.S. Constitution, who'd as soon put their own children in harms way as ours? Ya say the greatest qualification for leadership here in the U.S. of A. is being wealthy and used to gettin your way? I could'nt possibly disagree more with that assertion, as that is exactly what's wrong with our government...its composed largely of priviledged cretins who have absolutely nothin in common with everyday Americans and who just happened to be born into wealth and believe that entitles em to govern! I believe the word for that is feudalism, AKA "The Golden Rule" (He who has the gold makes the rules). Ya better believe the American Presidency is up for sale to the highest bidder...how the hell else could a guy like "W" ever end up in the Oval Office? Last I checked, the Dynamic Duo aint exactly scandal proof, no sir...Junior and Big Dick are most definity not beyond reproach! Vix, maybe you'd like to donate some of your hard earned cash to em so they can buy themselves some Teflon suits? Hell, they've already helped themselves to the contents of our wallets. Good thing you're ok with that!

Check out the followin link: http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=3524


But you're quite correct about the aim of radical Islam...they want to either convert us or kill us. Nobody is safe from em, not even their less enthusiastic brethren. Where-ever radical Islam is found there is butchery and conflict...its a cancer that must be eradicated if there's ever to be any peace, if any of us are to be safe and secure. But the way we're goin about it aint cuttin the mustard. History has shown time and again that military occupations rarely work and almost always end badly. How much of our money has Bush/Cheney spent occupyin Iraq so far? How many zeros is that? Think throwin more of our money at it is gonna solve their problem? How many dead and maimed young Americans are we up to now? Think the answer is to send more troops? Think it over.
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Old 10-04-2007, 02:40 AM   #50
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Let us just pull ALL of our troops home because we are afraid one might get killed and that is just wrong. This is all about big oil and their profit margin Al thanks for posting for LN you got your point out there for him and he needed the help. Vix I agree with your post and part of Als post. This problem is much deeper than the oil field. Iran is counting on America not to have the guts to see another American die. They sure do not mind fighting for their evil cause. If the democRATS would not block us from drilling on the in North Alaska and let us build more refineries we could have yet another weapon to fight with. This cut bait and run will not work in a one world order. We must fight evil to the end. Nobody seems to point out the fact that Russia is behind all this mess. Al and Vix you both had good points in your post but I do not agree with all of them. Thank you both for being civil and you both sound like you are up on world affairs. LN you might want to try picking up a book every now and then and that might help your post. You guys come from a generation that can not remember war only in the books if you read them. History repeats just like Vietnam the press and the hippies did not have the guts to stick it out. It turn we let down our soldiers and the many people that supported us in Vietnam where left to die. LBJ was a fool.
Bruce and Jane stink of socialism. I am glad we live in a country where we can speak our mind. The dirt nap comes to all and what we did and who we support in our life will come to light. God does bless America even with detractors in our mist.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:41 AM   #51
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Okay since no women have posted here I will dare to put in my 2 cents.
On Sept. 11 2001 this country as we know it changed. There's no doubt about it! Everyone was upset and looking for answers and cries of let's get those bastards were coming from all walks of life. When 6 months later something was done about it...the declaration of war by our president...people seemed relieved and supportive. My own liberal gay brother said to me "I guess it was a good thing Gore didn't win after all, he wouldn't have the backbone to declare war." That has stuck with me. As I recall Congress was all in agreement that war was the only answer. Now as we all know there is no timetable as to when it will be over. Pres. Bush said as much in the beginning. Now that the war is going on longer than many Americans believe acceptable people have turned on our leaders. This is what hurts our great country!!!! The enemies love to see us Americans disagreeing amongst ourselves!!!! War isn't pretty but is indeed necessary at times. Let's try to ride this thing out in support of our Commander and Chief and the soldiers!
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:15 AM   #52
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Second woman coming in here. I agree with points all of you make. I also have no problem with my son or daughter defending this country if that is a choice they make. These people want to take us over and will not stop from that mission. We have to continue our fight to stop their aggression against us or we will completely lose. So Al and Latenight since you apparently think the boys need to come home now how do you propose this whole mess with the Islam radicals be sorted out? What plan do you see working?
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:33 AM   #53
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9-11, 9-11, well 9-11 has nothing to do with iraq, never did. Might sounds good, make people feel better.. We should have "stayed" the course in Afghanistan, instead of pulling some troops out of there to go into Iraq. Capture Bin Laden, and run the Taliban completely out of there. Problem is, there ain't any money to be made in Afghanistan.

when ever this debate comes up, people like to holler and scream about Iran.. i've agreed 100 damn times around here, they are a real threat... throwing a trillion dollars at Iraq, does not help us any in Iran, it's only hurts us. so Iran does not equal a reason to be in Iraq.

Another tactic, is to accuse anyone of having a difference of opinion is to claim they don't support the troops, and then to wrap themselves in an American flag, and say rah rah. Look, I've known several folks, friends and family who have served in Iraq, I'm very proud of them, I wish like heck this crazy plan in Iraq had worked. They do what they are told, and I'm very proud of them, and I worry about them, and I worry for their families. This doesn't make me a ****ing Cut and Run democrat.. this makes me someone looking for a better freakin' plan.

and Isaac, I read plenty.. will admit i got thrown a little off being called un-american by the likes of you. another tactic by people in this debate.. have a difference of opinion.. you are labeled un-american. a socialist WTF ever..

You can compare jane fonda and Bruce Springsteen all you want.. I know it makes you feel better.. have at it. There's plenty of people who have difference of opinions about this war, they aren't over there in Iraq, talking with the insurgents. Call me a socialist left wing whatever new word you want to use, you know nothing of me and my politics.

someone asked what would be the plan instead of sitting around policing Iraq, in this war on "Terror" there are Al Quada cells everywhere, this war requires quick acting strikes, on insurgents where ever they may be. if Iran wants to build nukes, we send some missiles and we take them out. 10 years later if they try again, we blow 'em up again.. We don't spend 10 years occupying their country, hoping they'll change their damn minds.. You spend a couple of days blowing up nuclear plants, destroying some of their infrastructure.. after awhile, the people living there get pissed off at THEIR leaders, for not acting right, not at us for hangin' around for 10 years.

We need the ability to strike anywhere and everywhere at a moments notice.. spending a trillion damn dollars in Iraq getting bogged down in that cluster @#$@# doesn't help us.

You see this thread.. what its turned into.. when isaac brought this crap over into my LateNight forum.. can anyone blame me for trying to keep this crap out of there. I didn't delete Isaacs posts, he did, I edited one and took freakin' Jand Fonda out of my forum... the LateNight forum was about the music PERIOD. but to heck with that.

No one is changing anyone's mind here.. it's a waste of freakin' time and effort. God forbid someone have a difference of opinion around here, they're UN-American... someone has to stand up and ask the QUESTIONS, I'm not a cheerleader for this or ANY administration.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:51 AM   #54
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Bring the Boys Home,,,, That sounds like a very narrow viewpoint, kind of like you can't see the forest for the trees. The reason for this war, in my opinion, is to stop the genocide and the support of terror against the US. I have yet to see any oil rebates or discounts from this war. The price of oil is based on supply and demand, poor weather hindering shipment, and the political climate. If someone is to blame, blame the UN for the oil for food scandal, blame the DEM Clinton for Osama Bin Laden, and the bleeding heart liberal peacekeepers and nuclear watchdogs for Iraq and Iran. Give an inch they will take mile. My opinion comes from a military background and oil knowledge and investments. You know what the say about opinions, they are just a@@ holes, everybody has one... just some are bigger than others!
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:56 AM   #55
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You do not support this administration or any administration ? What is you do support ? Our troops ? Our cause ? Just who do you think is going to move in Iraq if our troops leave ? IRAN !!!! Your cursing rants have the tone of Brainsmashr .
You say I know nothing of your politics but you keep posting your thoughts ?? Hello !!
You want to bomb them every ten years. That way of thinking leaves time for more build up and it has the sound of a President Clinton or Jimmy the joke Carter. Now the part about “your” group you should be able to see I deleted the rest of what you did not delete and moved here to the thread I started before your pity party. You think that music does not have a political message then you need to get your head out of the sand. Bruce of all people has a major agenda he blends with his music. You know it is a thread like this one that cause people to take a stand.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:04 AM   #56
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throwing a trillion dollars at Iraq, does not help us any in Iran, it's only hurts us. so Iran does not equal a reason to be in Iraq.
Well maybe with one exception. If we do ever get into it with Iran, we might need a base nearby to land our planes and operate from. I remember all the fuss over air space and bases during both Iraq wars. Just a thought... I really don't know much about military strategies.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:14 AM   #57
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Well maybe with one exception. If we do ever get into it with Iran, we might need a base nearby to land our planes and operate from. I remember all the fuss over air space and bases during both Iraq wars. Just a thought... I really don't know much about military strategies.
Good post rhertz. Yes we do need a base to keep a eye on our enemy. It is good to see what a good job our troops are doing at cleaning up the mess.
You know it is sad when I here someone worried about the money being spent in Iraq when the democRATS want to tax us out of business and the people worried about the money do not even pay much in taxes.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:14 AM   #58
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You do not support this administration or any administration ? What is you do support ? Our troops ? Our cause ?

Well, for starters, that's not what I said. I said I'm not a CHEERLEADER for them.. I know they can be wrong, I know at times they are not truthful. If I disagree, I'm gonna say so.. not just repeat the company line and stand dutifully by as if all is right with the world. Yes, I support our troops, yes I support our cause, I just don't agree with the current plan. Thus apparently making me un-american. so I guess I got that going for me.

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You say I know nothing of your politics but you keep posting your thoughts ?? Hello !!

Exactly, apparently you're just not listening.
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Old 10-04-2007, 10:28 AM   #59
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Well, for starters, that's not what I said. I said I'm not a CHEERLEADER for them.. I know they can be wrong, I know at times they are not truthful. If I disagree, I'm gonna say so.. not just repeat the company line and stand dutifully by as if all is right with the world. Yes, I support our troops, yes I support our cause, I just don't agree with the current plan. Thus apparently making me un-American. so I guess I got that going for me.




Exactly, apparently you're just not listening.
Hey your right I do not listen to your pitycast any more but I do read the board and you have posted your thoughts. We do not agree on much of anything from censorship, our President, Iraq and our troops. This is freedom of speech and you have the right to support or not support our great nation and the cause that we fight for and this nation was built on. Freedom ! this gives all of us the right and yes it was paid for with blood.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:11 PM   #60
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Wow....where to start? O.K. AL: When has "big buisiness" not made money from war? Isn't that what got America out of the depression? Yes, it is. Does that mean its "right"? thats a matter of opinion, But their necessity is not. And who's REALLY making money off this war? Did you know that the LARGEST shareholder in Halliburton is(was) none-other than LADY BIRD JOHNSON? Yes, the big Liberal wife of Dem president Johnson- OUCH! I know that hurt. And oh yeah, that Kennedy family also owns an Oil company. If your gonna be so passionate about something, dont you want all the information? Do a little research.....

LN: You stand up and ask questions, Thats great. Here are some FACTS for you-
1. Russian Intelligence told us they thought Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. So did Germany, Spain, England, Japan, France, and the American FBI and CIA. Was the President supposed to think" oh, theyre all lying so I will make money" WTF ?? And remember when the Government leaders of France did'nt want us to go into Iraq and we later found the records in Bagdhad that showed they were violating the UN sanctions and buying oil from saddam under the table?
2. We KNOW he used chemical weapons against the Kurds.
3. Saddam actively supported Islamic terrorists including al-queada and paying CASH to the families of suicide bombers.
I could go on, but lets stop there. Do we want a Nut like saddam or Iran or N.Korea who has an inclination to hand these weapons over to people who will use them on us and the Jews? Why is this so difficult to comprehend? So, Saddam is gone and the Iraqis are not handling up like we(I) thought they would. How does that deminish the FACT that we went in there with the correct intentions? When You say Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror, YOU ARE WRONG.

I want our troops home as soon as possible, but thats a long time from now. We have to be realistic and see the BIG picture. Thank GOD we have a competant President and Military leaders who do understand.

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