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Old 03-08-2007, 02:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Likewise, the authors of the Bible were not prophets. They were simple men who wrote stories that involved their god. Not unlike Homer, wouldn't you say?
There were dozens of divinely inspired writers who contributed to the Bible over hundreds of years. Some were prophets, some were disciples, some prisoners, but all had the spirit of God in their minds, hearts, and souls. We know this because they plainly said so. Contrast that to Homer recording fables or Dr Seuss writing stories. Even if such fables or stories hold some truth, this would have no bearing one way or the other on the validity of the Bible.


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Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
No I'm not, but you certainly cannot prove that he did exist either.
In large part, my proof is that the majority of people on the planet (Christians, Jews, and Muslims) believe he existed. That is considerable evidence. How many believe that Greek Mythology is the one true religion? I cannot name a single person who believes such. Do you believe the Iliad and Odyssey are non-fictional works that are historical and religious in context?


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Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
I have no problem with the concept that he was just a man preaching a message of peace....it's the "miracles" I refuse to believe.
Then you have never witnessed a “miracle” yourself? Have you ever prayed in Christ’s name and had your prayer answered? If not, then it comes as little surprise that you have no faith in Christ. I find that most people who believe in Christ do so out of personal experience. In other words, seeing is believing. Likewise have you prayed to Zeus and then witnessed your prayer answered against all odds? Is so, then I can understand why you believe in what you do. Again seeing is believing.


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Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
The "problem" here is that, as with the astronomy thread, you are relying on the majority as your "proof". Religion is not democracy, and just like with the flat-Earth concept, it is quite possible for the majority to be completely and entirely wrong.
Are you saying that statistically speaking, the vast majority of people on earth are more often wrong than right? I happen to believe that mankind is more often right than wrong, and so do most modern scholars and psychologists. The “problem” is usually when an individual thinks the world is wrong yet he or she is right. Certainly, there is always the remote possibility that the whole world is wrong and that you are right, in which case the correct action is to keep your mouth shut about it. Why?

You and society are linked together whether you like it or not. To know the truth, you have to believe in something and then act on it. Society will give you plenty of feedback. This site is one example. Now if society decides to hang you for heresy or treason then at least you will die secure in the knowledge that you contributed something to our party!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
So I'll ask you again, can you even prove that Jesus existed or is the Bible and faith all you have, all you've ever had, and all you ever will have?
Proof:
- Documentation: Old and New Testament, Dead Sea Scrolls, nearly all of Theology
- World Consensus: Substantial statistical proof that Jesus existed
- Experience: As a Christian, I am a living testament to the miracles I have witnessed and prayers than I have seen answered against all odds.
- Even the number of “Bible codes” would suggest this is not your average book


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
The belief/worship of the Greek Gods is an "alternate belief".
Islam is an alternate belief. Buddhism is an alternate belief.
To put mythology on par with Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, etc. puts you in a tiny minority statistically speaking, and possibly matching those who believe Man did not land on the moon, or that the WTC towers was as inside job, or that the world is still flat.
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:41 PM   #32
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Awesome reply!!
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:50 PM   #33
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Thumbs up Hear, hear I second that

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Awesome reply!!
Very well written. I could not agree more
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Old 03-08-2007, 04:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhertz
There were dozens of divinely inspired writers who contributed to the Bible over hundreds of years. Some were prophets, some were disciples, some prisoners, but all had the spirit of God in their minds, hearts, and souls. We know this because they plainly said so. Contrast that to Homer recording fables or Dr Seuss writing stories. Even if such fables or stories hold some truth, this would have no bearing one way or the other on the validity of the Bible.
A marble relief, found in Italy but thought to have been sculpted in Egypt, depicts the apotheosis of Homer. It shows Ptolemy and his wife/sister Arsinoe III standing beside a seated Homer. The poet is shown flanked by figures from the Odyssey and Iliad, with the nine Muses standing above them and a procession of worshippers approaching an altar, believed to represent the Alexandrine Homereion. Apollo, god of music and poetry, also appears, along with a female figure tentatively identified as Mnemosyne, the mother of the Muses. Zeus, the king of the gods, presides over the proceedings. The relief demonstrates vividly how the Greeks considered Homer not just a great poet, but the divinely inspired source of all literature.[2]

That's from wikipedia. As you can plainly see, your thoughts are based on opinion alone, not easily accessible and readily verifiable fact....and again, we're talking about 2 parts of 1 story and only 1 author.

C'mon dude, you can't even debunk Homer while not being able to name one author of the Bible.


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In large part, my proof is that the majority of people on the planet (Christians, Jews, and Muslims) believe he existed. That is considerable evidence. How many believe that Greek Mythology is the one true religion? I cannot name a single person who believes such. Do you believe the Iliad and Odyssey are non-fictional works that are historical and religious in context?
As I stated, the difference between Mythology and Religion is the number of current believers. 2007 years ago, how many people do you think followed a monotheistic religion, much less Christianity? How about 3000 years ago? How about 5000? How about 10,000 years ago in the first recorded histories of man? Heck dude, monotheism didn't even appear until around 1500 BCE.

I hate to call you a zealot, since you don't make a religious reference in every other post, but you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious with on this one. As I stated, religion isn't a Democracy...majority is irrelevant.
Quote:

Then you have never witnessed a “miracle” yourself? Have you ever prayed in Christ’s name and had your prayer answered? If not, then it comes as little surprise that you have no faith in Christ. I find that most people who believe in Christ do so out of personal experience. In other words, seeing is believing. Likewise have you prayed to Zeus and then witnessed your prayer answered against all odds? Is so, then I can understand why you believe in what you do. Again seeing is believing.
I don't pray to any alleged omnipotent being. Are you implying that any "miracle" you have witnessed doesn't have a scientifically related cause and affect?

Get real dude.....if ANY woman you know showed up pregnant tomorrow, would you believe it was an immaculate conception? Remember, intercourse doesn't have to happen for a pregnancy to occur, but but a meeting of sperm and egg must.
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Are you saying that statistically speaking, the vast majority of people on earth are more often wrong than right? I happen to believe that mankind is more often right than wrong, and so do most modern scholars and psychologists. The “problem” is usually when an individual thinks the world is wrong yet he or she is right. Certainly, there is always the remote possibility that the whole world is wrong and that you are right, in which case the correct action is to keep your mouth shut about it. Why?
That is certainly not what I said. However, you cannot deny that the majority has been wrong on some relatively major issues be it a flat-Earth, or in your case, polytheistic beliefs. Heck, I'd go as far as to say you'd consider every non-Christian to be "wrong", regardless of their beliefs, correct?
Quote:
You and society are linked together whether you like it or not. To know the truth, you have to believe in something and then act on it. Society will give you plenty of feedback. This site is one example. Now if society decides to hang you for heresy or treason then at least you will die secure in the knowledge that you contributed something to our party!
I believe in Science. I assumed that was perfectly clear....please forgive me if it was not.


Quote:
Proof:
- Documentation: Old and New Testament, Dead Sea Scrolls, nearly all of Theology
- World Consensus: Substantial statistical proof that Jesus existed
- Experience: As a Christian, I am a living testament to the miracles I have witnessed and prayers than I have seen answered against all odds.
- Even the number of “Bible codes” would suggest this is not your average book
Obviously you and I have very different beliefs in what constitutes evidence. The Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls are heresay....that is, not first-hand accounts. The majority of theology does not support Christianity....while I will concede it is currently the most popular, it's numbers are easily surpassed by the number 2 and 3 religions combined (Muslim, Hindu), and of course that doesn't even take into account the numerous other religions found throughout the world. Simply put, Christians only make up about 1/3 of the total global population, and that's putting you in the same category as snake handlers, the Amish, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witness...aren't you proud?

Where's the cross?
Where are the bones?
God saves souls....are you implying only once that he considered removing the body as well? How convenient.
Quote:


To put mythology on par with Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, etc. puts you in a tiny minority statistically speaking, and possibly matching those who believe Man did not land on the moon, or that the WTC towers was as inside job, or that the world is still flat.
Or,the more likely case, you could just be another borderline zealot readily willing to overlook the obvious simply because it doesn't support your beliefs while waiting for the image of Mary to appear in another piece of toast.

Last edited by BrainSmashR; 03-08-2007 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:28 PM   #35
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Tell me, Brain, have you ever heard of "Pascal's Wager"? Personally, I fully understood the tenets of Pascal's Wager long before I knew the concept had a name. Basically, "PW" exposes atheism for the utterly foolhardy practice that it is. In plain english, it means that you have absolutely NOTHING to lose by choosing to believe in a creator/supreme being, and EVERYTHING to gain. Ok, so here we are, locked into the mortal coil, now...in Christianity, for example, choosing not to believe in God is the one impardonable sin that will land one's miserable ass in eternal hot water, agreed? Ok, so if there really IS a Christian God, then choosing to believe in Him would seem to be the logical and intelligent thing to do, would it not? If it turns out theres no God then you've lost nothing, correct? This is the same conclusion even the most theologically ignorant soldier arrives at when he finds himself in combat. Its where the saying "ya wont find a single athiest in a foxhole" comes from! So, where does that leave us? Well, to my way of thinking, it means that there are no REAL atheists, only those who PROFESS to be atheists. Yes, there are those who profess atheism...right up until they find themselves confronting their own mortality, then they recant.

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Old 03-08-2007, 07:50 PM   #36
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Damn, if ol' Al didn't DO IT AGAIN !
"there ain't no atheist in fox holes" how the heck are ya gonna argue with that !!!!
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:00 PM   #37
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for rhertz and al
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Old 03-08-2007, 08:06 PM   #38
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LOL...yup, the atheist recants...it would be funny if the stakes werent so damned high!
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashR
Or,the more likely case, you could just be another borderline zealot readily willing to overlook the obvious simply because it doesn't support your beliefs while waiting for the image of Mary to appear in another piece of toast.
I would have to say, it doesn't make someone a "Zealot" to stand up against someone like you trying to claim everything they believe in is a lie..

I would say, bottom line.. it comes down to FAITH, either you have it or you don't. But don't try to stand there and be surprised if someone tries to argue with you when you call them crazy.
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Old 03-09-2007, 12:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
A marble relief, found in Italy but thought to have been sculpted in Egypt, depicts the apotheosis of Homer. It shows Ptolemy and his wife/sister Arsinoe III standing beside a seated Homer. The poet is shown flanked by figures from the Odyssey and Iliad, with the nine Muses standing above them and a procession of worshippers approaching an altar, believed to represent the Alexandrine Homereion. Apollo, god of music and poetry, also appears, along with a female figure tentatively identified as Mnemosyne, the mother of the Muses. Zeus, the king of the gods, presides over the proceedings. The relief demonstrates vividly how the Greeks considered Homer not just a great poet, but the divinely inspired source of all literature.[2]
My first thought is our society’s (Merian Webster) definition of “literature”.

1archaic : literary culture2: the production of literary work especially as an occupation3 a (1): writings in prose or verse; especially : writings having excellence of form or expression and expressing ideas of permanent or universal interest (2): an example of such writings <what came out, though rarely literature, was always a roaring good story — People> b: the body of written works produced in a particular language, country, or age c: the body of writings on a particular subject <scientific literature> d: printed matter (as leaflets or circulars) <campaign literature>4: the aggregate of a usually specified type of musical compositions

I see no reference whatsoever to religion, spirit, or anything relating to such. Dr. Seuss is literature.


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Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
That's from wikipedia.
Wikipedia, LMAO. Did you actually reference Wikipedia in your attempt to prove that Mythology is a legitimate religion (on par with Christianity)? A true sign of the times I suppose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
As you can plainly see, your thoughts are based on opinion alone, not easily accessible and readily verifiable fact....and again, we're talking about 2 parts of 1 story and only 1 author.
C'mon dude, you can't even debunk Homer while not being able to name one author of the Bible.
Mark, Luke, Daniel, John, Mathew, Paul, Jeremiah, Job, Peter, and dozens more. How many names do you want me to name???


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
As I stated, the difference between Mythology and Religion is the number of current believers.
LOL, yeah a number that’s all. Let me ask you, would you rather work for $1 per year or $1,000,00 a year. After all, the difference is only a number of current dollars. It’s just a number. Numbers are irrelevant right? NOT! Numbers are very important.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
2007 years ago, how many people do you think followed a monotheistic religion, much less Christianity? How about 3000 years ago? How about 5000? How about 10,000 years ago in the first recorded histories of man? Heck dude, monotheism didn't even appear until around 1500 BCE.
Not true. Believe it or not, the Great Pyramid of Giza may be interpreted as a timeline and omen to the coming of Christ until recent times. The knowledge of the one God of Abraham and the coming of Christ dates back thousands of years as you describe. (5000 to 10000 years or more) Monotheism is one of the oldest forms of religion and has definitely without a doubt proven to be the most successful in overall history. What percentage of the billions on earth today believe in multiple gods? Jungle tribes maybe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
I hate to call you a zealot, since you don't make a religious reference in every other post, but you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious with on this one. As I stated, religion isn't a Democracy...majority is irrelevant.
Majority is irrelevant. I cannot top that. You are your own best spokesperson on this topic. Just listen to yourself and imagine the consequences of the majority being irrelevant. There is little more that I can say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
I don't pray to any alleged omnipotent being.
Thank you for your honesty in this regard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Are you implying that any "miracle" you have witnessed doesn't have a scientifically related cause and affect?
Yes, I am not only implying that, but banking on it as part of my faith. If you have never witnessed a miracle, then I invite you to read the bible and experience that possibility of a miracle beyond science to touch your life.


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Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Get real dude.....if ANY woman you know showed up pregnant tomorrow, would you believe it was an immaculate conception? Remember, intercourse doesn't have to happen for a pregnancy to occur, but but a meeting of sperm and egg must.
If a virgin is artificially inseminated, is she still a virgin? Does the name of the donor change that fact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
That is certainly not what I said. However, you cannot deny that the majority has been wrong on some relatively major issues be it a flat-Earth, or in your case, polytheistic beliefs. Heck, I'd go as far as to say you'd consider every non-Christian to be "wrong", regardless of their beliefs, correct?
BC, no, not at all. AD, no, not if they are ill informed. But for someone with every opportunity to know Christ, yet purposely denies himself of that opportunity, well yeah, you got me!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
I believe in Science. I assumed that was perfectly clear....please forgive me if it was not.
Yeah me too. I am an engineer working in downtown Shreveport. My Bachelors degree in Science does not preclude me from being a religious person, much less a Christian.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Obviously you and I have very different beliefs in what constitutes evidence.
That may be true. Two lawyers on opposing sides of the same case might interpret the same evidence differently. So I’m not bothered in the least by this suggestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
The Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls are heresay....that is, not first-hand accounts. The majority of theology does not support Christianity....while I will concede it is currently the most popular, it's numbers are easily surpassed by the number 2 and 3 religions combined (Muslim, Hindu), and of course that doesn't even take into account the numerous other religions found throughout the world. Simply put, Christians only make up about 1/3 of the total global population, and that's putting you in the same category as snake handlers, the Amish, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witness...aren't you proud?
The Bible is precisely a series of first hand accounts, however as I mentioned before, it is our own first hard accounts that shape our lives and determine our faith. I do not believe in the Bible without first proving to my own satisfaction that the message is real.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Where's the cross?
Where are the bones?
God saves souls....are you implying only once that he considered removing the body as well? How convenient.
Dude, you totally lost me. Please speak clear English if you really want a thoughtful response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainSmashr
Or,the more likely case, you could just be another borderline zealot readily willing to overlook the obvious simply because it doesn't support your beliefs while waiting for the image of Mary to appear in another piece of toast.
Dude, I don’t even go to church each Sunday! But believing that Zeus is the God of God’s is just wack by almost anyone’s standards, even a moderate like me. Certainly you know this as you troll the boards.
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:52 AM   #41
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Al you nailed it right on the head "Pascal's Wager"

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Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Tell me, Brain, have you ever heard of "Pascal's Wager"? Personally, I fully understood the tenets of Pascal's Wager long before I knew the concept had a name. Basically, "PW" exposes atheism for the utterly foolhardy practice that it is. In plain english, it means that you have absolutely NOTHING to lose by choosing to believe in a creator/supreme being, and EVERYTHING to gain. Ok, so here we are, locked into the mortal coil, now...in Christianity, for example, choosing not to believe in God is the one impardonable sin that will land one's miserable ass in eternal hot water, agreed? Ok, so if there really IS a Christian God, then choosing to believe in Him would seem to be the logical and intelligent thing to do, would it not? If it turns out theres no God then you've lost nothing, correct? This is the same conclusion even the most theologically ignorant soldier arrives at when he finds himself in combat. Its where the saying "ya wont find a single athiest in a foxhole" comes from! So, where does that leave us? Well, to my way of thinking, it means that there are no REAL atheists, only those who PROFESS to be atheists. Yes, there are those who profess atheism...right up until they find themselves confronting their own mortality, then they recant.
You have done it again Al. Your words are where the rubber meets the road. I agree that if some people ever had any question if they ended up in a fox hole with bullets inches over their head they might want to rethink in a very short time what they have faith in. There are some of satans minions that will never come to the light and who they are only God knows. They would be called Tares in the Bible. Good post Al many thanks.
Isaac
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Old 03-09-2007, 06:46 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen
Tell me, Brain, have you ever heard of "Pascal's Wager"? Personally, I fully understood the tenets of Pascal's Wager long before I knew the concept had a name. Basically, "PW" exposes atheism for the utterly foolhardy practice that it is. In plain english, it means that you have absolutely NOTHING to lose by choosing to believe in a creator/supreme being, and EVERYTHING to gain. Ok, so here we are, locked into the mortal coil, now...in Christianity, for example, choosing not to believe in God is the one impardonable sin that will land one's miserable ass in eternal hot water, agreed? Ok, so if there really IS a Christian God, then choosing to believe in Him would seem to be the logical and intelligent thing to do, would it not? If it turns out theres no God then you've lost nothing, correct? This is the same conclusion even the most theologically ignorant soldier arrives at when he finds himself in combat. Its where the saying "ya wont find a single athiest in a foxhole" comes from! So, where does that leave us? Well, to my way of thinking, it means that there are no REAL atheists, only those who PROFESS to be atheists. Yes, there are those who profess atheism...right up until they find themselves confronting their own mortality, then they recant.
So your God is a terrorists, right?

You believe because of the FEAR of not believing?

You know, there are MANY who would label you as a non-Christain because of what you have stated above.....in fact, I'm truely surprised that Isaac agrees with this type of justification.
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Old 03-09-2007, 06:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob
I would have to say, it doesn't make someone a "Zealot" to stand up against someone like you trying to claim everything they believe in is a lie..

I would say, bottom line.. it comes down to FAITH, either you have it or you don't. But don't try to stand there and be surprised if someone tries to argue with you when you call them crazy.
FAITH is not verifiable evidence.....but I'll concede that's all you have.

I'll also agree that defending one's beliefs doesn't necessarily make one a zealot. Now refusing to believe there are any alternatives when your opinions are base solely on faith "because that's all you have"......well that's a different story, isn't it?
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:30 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhertz
My first thought is our society’s (Merian Webster) definition of “literature”.

1archaic : literary culture2: the production of literary work especially as an occupation3 a (1): writings in prose or verse; especially : writings having excellence of form or expression and expressing ideas of permanent or universal interest (2): an example of such writings <what came out, though rarely literature, was always a roaring good story — People> b: the body of written works produced in a particular language, country, or age c: the body of writings on a particular subject <scientific literature> d: printed matter (as leaflets or circulars) <campaign literature>4: the aggregate of a usually specified type of musical compositions

I see no reference whatsoever to religion, spirit, or anything relating to such. Dr. Seuss is literature.
The word "Bible" refers to the canonical collections of sacred writings of Judaism and Christianity.

Are you trying to imply that this body of written works you refer to as The Bible isn't just another piece of literature?

If I look up the word Manger, is it going to reference your God?
How about the North Star?

You've done nothing more here than show that you can't help but to let emotion override your intellect.

Quote:

Wikipedia, LMAO. Did you actually reference Wikipedia in your attempt to prove that Mythology is a legitimate religion (on par with Christianity)? A true sign of the times I suppose.
No, I used wikipedia to show that you haven't even attempted research on your side of "the story".

It would the the equalivent of me arguing Religion without having first read the Bible.


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Mark, Luke, Daniel, John, Mathew, Paul, Jeremiah, Job, Peter, and dozens more. How many names do you want me to name???
Very good, now how many of them gave first-hand accounts? And while you're at it, explain why the Catholic Church decides which writing to include instead of including all of the "divinely inspired" works? Surely they have noting to hide?


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LOL, yeah a number that’s all. Let me ask you, would you rather work for $1 per year or $1,000,00 a year. After all, the difference is only a number of current dollars. It’s just a number. Numbers are irrelevant right? NOT! Numbers are very important.
Numbers are important in quantifiable measurements, Like a pay-check. They do not prove right or wrong. One upon a time every black man in the United States was a slave.....did the number make it right? Did the number of people who believed in a flat-Earth make it right?

As I stated, you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious in jealously over your God. That's zealotry.
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Not true. Believe it or not, the Great Pyramid of Giza may be interpreted as a timeline and omen to the coming of Christ until recent times. The knowledge of the one God of Abraham and the coming of Christ dates back thousands of years as you describe. (5000 to 10000 years or more) Monotheism is one of the oldest forms of religion and has definitely without a doubt proven to be the most successful in overall history. What percentage of the billions on earth today believe in multiple gods? Jungle tribes maybe.
I see, so your contention, is that because of a single belief about the pyramid and in spite of the numerous works for art, literature, sculpture, etc. that the Egyptians were monotheistic?

As I stated, you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious in jealously over your God. That's zealotry.

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Majority is irrelevant. I cannot top that. You are your own best spokesperson on this topic. Just listen to yourself and imagine the consequences of the majority being irrelevant. There is little more that I can say.
I will not be controlled by fear out of ignorance.


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Thank you for your honesty in this regard.




Yes, I am not only implying that, but banking on it as part of my faith. If you have never witnessed a miracle, then I invite you to read the bible and experience that possibility of a miracle beyond science to touch your life.
You're "banking" one it? I asked if YOU SPECIFICALLY have ever witnessed a miracle that could not be explained with a scientifically based cause and affect......now you're simply "banking" on one?

As I stated, you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious in jealously over your God. That's zealotry.

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If a virgin is artificially inseminated, is she still a virgin? Does the name of the donor change that fact?
Is an artificially inseminated woman "untouched"?

As I stated, you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious in jealously over your God. That's zealotry.
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BC, no, not at all. AD, no, not if they are ill informed. But for someone with every opportunity to know Christ, yet purposely denies himself of that opportunity, well yeah, you got me!
So then you're saying that approximately 2/3rd's of the Earth is wrong because they are not Christians, yet you have trouble swallowing the concept of 2+ billion Christians being wrong?

As I stated, you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious in jealously over your God. That's zealotry.
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Yeah me too. I am an engineer working in downtown Shreveport. My Bachelors degree in Science does not preclude me from being a religious person, much less a Christian.
No one said it should, however it should have enlightened you to the point that you can't tell truth from fiction.



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That may be true. Two lawyers on opposing sides of the same case might interpret the same evidence differently. So I’m not bothered in the least by this suggestion.
HELLO....they may interpret the evidence differently.

When are you going to produce something that would constitute Evidence? So far you have Faith, and book chock full of heresay.

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The Bible is precisely a series of first hand accounts, however as I mentioned before, it is our own first hard accounts that shape our lives and determine our faith. I do not believe in the Bible without first proving to my own satisfaction that the message is real.
I see, and what author witnessed the creation of the Earth and all of it's inhabitants again?


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Dude, you totally lost me. Please speak clear English if you really want a thoughtful response.
I believe my intentions were quite clear. Where is your verifiable and undeniable evidence? Where are Jesus's bones? You're god saves souls, not bodies.....there should be remains.

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Dude, I don’t even go to church each Sunday! But believing that Zeus is the God of God’s is just wack by almost anyone’s standards, even a moderate like me. Certainly you know this as you troll the boards.
[/quote]

The difference between Religion and Myth is the number of current believers. In a couple of thousand years, your decendents will laugh at your beliefs just as you laugh at the beliefs of your ancestors.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:51 PM   #45
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"Very good, now how many of them gave first-hand accounts? And while you're at it, explain why the Catholic Church decides which writing to include instead of including all of the "divinely inspired" works? Surely they have noting to hide?"

Sounds Like to me If it was up to Brainsmash, Christianity would be ended.


the explaination of the catholic church comment, they are humans interpreting the bible in their religion, right or wrong. this means their is human influence at play, including politics and infiltrators.

Their is a fine line between secularism and religion these days.... you make that abudantly clear, why don't you use dante's poem about hell next time or the kitchen sink......
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