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Old 03-20-2007, 10:40 AM   #31
Isaac-Saxxon
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Hey Matty I like your tone

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Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
Al, what is your source of information?

The "south" was not a sovereign state and none of the states of the United States are sovereign states, equal to the power of the United States. An example of a sovereign state is a geographic region with a governing body that is recognized on the world stage. The governor of Texas does not go to China as an ambassador of Texas to wage war or peace between China and Texas. It was also the American Colonies that framed and ratified the Constitution and THEN became states, Delaware being the first. They were not states first, then built the Union.

rhertz: "OK, I will try. All heritage is important to someone, right?. Are you saying that not all heritage is important? If so, then who decides what is important and what is not? My point is this is yet another slippery slope. Do we really want the PC police deciding for us? I like making up my own mind, but moreover, I like having the choice to CHANGE my mind as I grow smarter. This is a luxury in some parts....."

The importance of heritage to a person doesn't make it right. The terrorists have a heritage of killing indiscriminately those with whom they disagree. Is that a heritage in which it is good to take pride? (I'm not calling you a terrorist.)

Al, the southern states seceded, formed the Confederacy, then the Confederate States attacked the Union at Ft. Sumter. The Union didn't start the war.

Isaac, I understand and agree with you that our welfare system needs to be seriously revamped, but it makes your reason for waving the Confederate flag sound like you just don't like black people.

Scarlett, I agree. We don't owe anybody and nobody deserves payback for something that happened to their ancestors. If that were the case, I'd be the king of Scotland.
I like the way you discuss things there Matty. I do not own a Confederate flag and I do not recall ever owning one. My point is it has been used by PC people for a covert reason to motivate a racial divide and get the people on the public dole to vote for left wing groups that are for the entitlements. It was the south that supplied the labor and food for those up north and it is still the south that provides food and oil for much of this country. There where people that fought under that flag and died in something much bigger than for owning a slave as most where to poor to own a slave. It is time for them to quit acting like kept people and get some pride and dignity about themselves and work and pay taxes. Yes southern by the grace of God
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:27 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon
I like the way you discuss things there Matty. I do not own a Confederate flag and I do not recall ever owning one. My point is it has been used by PC people for a covert reason to motivate a racial divide and get the people on the public dole to vote for left wing groups that are for the entitlements. It was the south that supplied the labor and food for those up north and it is still the south that provides food and oil for much of this country. There where people that fought under that flag and died in something much bigger than for owning a slave as most where to poor to own a slave. It is time for them to quit acting like kept people and get some pride and dignity about themselves and work and pay taxes. Yes southern by the grace of God
Isaac
Thanks. I agree that everything associated with white people has been used to empower an entitlement mentality. I take more of an approach of personal accountability, whomever does not work does not eat! It's biblical.

I laughed when I read your slogan "Southern by the grace of God." We always grew up saying "American by birth, Texan by the grace of God."

The south provided/(s) food and oil for much of the north, but they provide consumers. Not that one is better than the other, just that we are complimentary.

This is my final political thought for this thread (yeah right). If you want to complain about many blacks not doing with what they were given, you should be complaining about Brown vs. the Board of Education.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:28 AM   #33
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Hey hey hey

Hey hey hey, I was born a rebel
down in dixie, on a sunday morning.
With one foot in the grave, and one foot on the pedal
I was born a rebel.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:31 AM   #34
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>They were not states first, then built the Union.

Then who exactly was at the Constitutional Conventions? I thought it was representatives from the states that assembled to form a national government after they won freedom from England.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:15 PM   #35
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"Then who exactly was at the Constitutional Conventions? I thought it was representatives from the states that assembled to form a national government after they won freedom from England."

They were representatives from the 13 colonies or de facto states, and upon ratification of the U.S. Constitution, joined the Union and became states under the authority of the Union. They were not states under a non-binding or suggested leadership like the U.N. They became subordinate to the Union. Their statehood was not the same before and after ratification of the Constitution, there was a change in order and authority.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:48 PM   #36
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Come on Joepole the one time I bet on you and....

Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
>They were not states first, then built the Union.

Then who exactly was at the Constitutional Conventions? I thought it was representatives from the states that assembled to form a national government after they won freedom from England.
do not drop the ball sounds like Matty is Choo Chooing your here. Hey Matty got to know one thing. Male or female ? I am thinking with your knowledge of history a guy for sure. I like debates like this I am learning as you two post and hey even if I do not agree, you two do not have a financial interest in this so you speak your heart not your pocket book. I shall be waiting for the Joepole to make his post. Come on Joe you can do it.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:13 PM   #37
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If there were no states creating the Federal government, then

1. Why did the framers refer to the nation as "The United States"

2. Why was the Constitutional Convention begun by saying "...a Convention of delegates who shall have been appointed by the several States be held at Philadelphia..." ?

3. If not states, what entities did the Articles of Confederation unite?
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:30 PM   #38
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The Dukes of Hazzard gave the rebel flag a bad name.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
If there were no states creating the Federal government, then

1. Why did the framers refer to the nation as "The United States"

2. Why was the Constitutional Convention begun by saying "...a Convention of delegates who shall have been appointed by the several States be held at Philadelphia..." ?

3. If not states, what entities did the Articles of Confederation unite?
1, 2, and 3. The definition of states changed. They were states as the members of the European Union are states (ie France, Germany, Austria, etc). These states were held together loosely under the Articles of Confederation. Their major threat was England and the states had a better chance if they banded together. After the Revolutionary War, the states recognized a need for a stronger central authority. When the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution, the states ceased to exist as sovereign states like Germany or France, and became what we know today as "states" in the United States. Geographical regions whose populations are ruled by a local governing body, whose authority is granted by a Constitution shared by all states of that nation.

It seems I was too vague in my previous explanation. Does this help?

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collecti...l/intro01.html

{...and I'm a guy}
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:19 AM   #40
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Where is Joepole ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
1, 2, and 3. The definition of states changed. They were states as the members of the European Union are states (ie France, Germany, Austria, etc). These states were held together loosely under the Articles of Confederation. Their major threat was England and the states had a better chance if they banded together. After the Revolutionary War, the states recognized a need for a stronger central authority. When the Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution, the states ceased to exist as sovereign states like Germany or France, and became what we know today as "states" in the United States. Geographical regions whose populations are ruled by a local governing body, whose authority is granted by a Constitution shared by all states of that nation.

It seems I was too vague in my previous explanation. Does this help?

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collecti...l/intro01.html

{...and I'm a guy}
Your a guy and a smart man to boot. Thank you for your post and I found them very well written and I am surprised that Mr. Pole is not responding he is always right or is it left ?
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:23 PM   #41
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Thanks, Isaac. I majored in Political Science and actually wrote a term paper on the "right to secession."
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:23 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
They were representatives from the 13 colonies or de facto states, and upon ratification of the U.S. Constitution, joined the Union and became states under the authority of the Union. They were not states under a non-binding or suggested leadership like the U.N. They became subordinate to the Union. Their statehood was not the same before and after ratification of the Constitution, there was a change in order and authority.
Apparently there were alot of people back then who disagreed with those sentiments. There are alot of people who disagree with them even now.
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:34 PM   #43
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Agree or disagree, that's how it is. Many people disagreed with the idea that the Earth was round, but alas, it is.
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:41 PM   #44
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Agree or disagree, that's how it is. Many people disagreed with the idea that the Earth was round, but alas, it is.
Thats the whole point. Thats NOT how it WAS. Thats how it IS because the North won, and only for that reason. A simple case of "might makes right". It boils down to a difference of opinion.
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Old 03-21-2007, 06:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MattyMattyChooChoo
Agree or disagree, that's how it is. Many people disagreed with the idea that the Earth was round, but alas, it is.
No it's square!
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