Is Christianity In Trouble?
 

Cameron (acting as producer), biblical film documentarian Simcha Jacobovici and a handful of their expert consultants were at the Library to publicize Jacobovici's The Jesus Family Tomb, which will run this Sunday on the Discovery Channel, and a HarperSanfrancisco book of the same name.

Christianity is not in trouble !
 

The people that "try" and tear It down are in trouble and just don't know it yet. This is just another sign of the times we live in. I do not think there is even close to enough evidence to make a case here. I will watch the show and that is what the producer wants. For those of you who care Mark Chapter 13 would be a good read and I will not go on about this because it is all written that these things should come to pass before the second advent.
Isaac

What's evidence got to do with it ? As you say, a "sign of the times" anybody will put on a show, regardless of taste, or quality, anything to make a buck.
And they keep airing them, because people keep watching them.

I used to find myself asking why does the quality of T.V. suck so bad. But then I realized, they keep playing what everyone keeps watching. :mad:

TV does suck and the people will just keep watching it
 

There are so many channels and they have to fill them with something. Trash for the most part and your right that evidence does not matter but the fact that the media is in a full frontal attack on Christians. Me and my wife in the last year quit watching TV each day after work and listen to music and catch the news via the web and that does not take long. I do not look for it to get better as the one world order comes to fruit.
Isaac

Updated News Story
 

A new story has been added to the "Read More" section of this topic, as follows

Shreveport Times -- Mar 5 2007 7:42 AM
Documentary raises questions but doesn't test Christians' faith

I've seen a lot of documentaries; some favor the Bible and some don't. I think documentaries just help us to form our own opinions and too many people them as absolute proven truth.

Luke warm is no place to be
 

Anime I thought you did not post to threads with religion involved :rolleyes: Hot or cold is always better than Luke warm. I had read that this show was not going to be run but this column with this thread implies that it did run. There are quite a few people on this planet that are very unhappy with this show I have not seen it but from what I have read there are a bunch of flaws in this guys theory.
Isaac

Christianity, like every religion ever invented, will eventually fall out of fashion and be forgotten.

The only difference between religion and mythology is the number of current believers.

It has fallen out of fashion for many
 

Eventually those that do not like Christianity will too fall out of fashion and out of site too and yes be forgotten. Don't worry Dee there is still time at your age to have a change of heart and I hope you do. Now as far as Dumber goes that will be a large hurdle to jump but even he still has time as long as he is still clinging to his clay shell. I think it would be the Christian thing to do to pray for you two and best wishes for you both. There is a millennium coming and school will be in session so bring you Book !
Isaac

The funny part is you think you're going to be saved by a being who had his own child sacrificed...as if you are more important than Jesus Christ.:clap:

May be funny to you now
 

I never said I was more important than Jesus Christ or God the Eternal One but I am very happy that Christ thought enough of me and all men to be willing to go the cross to open the door to salvation and it is up to the individual to walk thru the door. I think you might call that "Choice" you are pro choice are you not ? You have that choice just as all people do. I choose to walk in the light as best as a mortal man can. That IS my choice. I see you have read the Bible or someone told you what the Bible is about that is a start. You will not be able to bait me into hate and the dark side I am a child of the day and you sir I pray you too will find the light but that is as far as I can go to help you the rest is your "Choice" ! I came to two roads and I picked the one less traveled. Funny how the critics of the Bible for the most part never picked it up and read IT. Goats to the left and sheep to the right. Tares to the left and wheat to the right. I hope you have a great day I know I will.
Isaac

As I recall, Christ was sent here to be crucified, he didn't volunteer.

That's not a choice....

No one is out to change your beliefs, only to show you the absurdity in it.


.....and don't think for one second that you know more about the Bible than I do. My beliefs stem from objective reading, not blind obedience.

You choose the path most traveled
 

FYI Christ had the choice and He did not try to cut bait and run. Peter cut the ear off one of the Roman solders and Christ healed the ear and told Peter not to fight for it was written in the Old Testament that this must come to pass. You "say" you are not out to change my beliefs :rolleyes: you are all about tearing them down. Are you a self taught atheist ? I could use the word blind to describe you but obedieiant would not be a good description of you. I have no problem with you believing what ever it is you want after all it is your choice. I do pity you for your foolish attacks on Christians and the Bible. You say your a "confirmed Catholic" but you do not believe in Christ or the Bible ? Which side of your mouth are you talking out of today or is the noise you make coming from some other part of your body :nono:
Isaac

Not only can't you show that Christ had a choice, you can't produce one shred of evidence to support any miracle in the Bible other than the bible itself, which as we all know, was written by man.....the single most deceptive creature this planet has ever seen.

Long story short, you have nothing more than blind faith to support your opinions....and as I stated, I'm not out to change your opinion, just to make you admit the truth.

2000 years has proven this statement wrong so far. Christians are well funded and so I see little evidence to support that notion any time soon.

Not true. Mythology is not supported by extensive documentation. Christianity is very well documented. The Jews and Europeans kept very good records all things considered.

Well put rhertz
 

Thank you for stepping in and bringing your thoughts to the table. I do not mind admitting I am wrong when the facts point to that. Case in point joe on my spelling and a few other things he is a very educated man even though I disagree with "some" of his post and others make me laugh. I do not like being attacked by uneducated fool that would turn something fun into high blood pressure for others.
Isaac

2,000 years isn't too bad for a modern religion, but in the whole of human existence it's a blink of an eye.

Christianity has peaked, it is in decline. Eventually it will vanish.

Christianity is not very well documented. The Bible is a terrible reference material.

Christianity has peaked, it is in decline
 

I can agree with part of this statement but vanish never. The religionist have done much harm to the Bible and so have the translations from the Hebrew writings. The Bible is a documentation of the seed line of Adam from start until today. Christianity is in decline because of the attack from the inside of the group and the outside. The inside has done damage by making money off it and the outsiders have always hated it. Blink of an eye is true ! Joe what is infinity ? What is time ? Is that air you think your breathing ? My point is what is real ? What we believe is real that is what is real. Just like the carbon dating it is a man made measure that as you pointed out is flawed in some ways. I would love to see a thread on Dinosaurs and how all those old bones ended up here on this planet. I have some thoughts (opinion) on this and I do not think the planet is 6000 years old it is "much" older how old I do not know.
Isaac

Greek and Roman mythology existed for at least 1000 years before Christ and well after his crucification. As far as "documentation" you can start with the Iliad and the Odyssey which focus mainly on the Trojan war......and don't even get me started on the influence Latin has had on every modern language in existence.

To imply that religions other than Christianity lack the "documentation" to support their beliefs shows just how little you know about alternate beliefs.

Sounds like someone is filled with hate
 

What does Greek and Roman Myths (stories and or lies) have to do with the history of the Bible. The old Testament goes a lot further back than Greek myths and insulting other peoples beliefs is rude and uncalled for. I do not see you telling us what it is you do belief instead you insult and call names to make your bogus points. Respect is the order of the day so please refrain from the attracts and please post your opinion about what you believe instead of putting down others for the sake of fun. I have good friends that believe in all kinds of religions and I do not dislike them or put them down for what the believe. Your hate tactics and mean spirit does not help others it turns them away from your post. Get your point across with out the personal insults. I am sure none of us are perfect and you may want to try to be nice to people and they will want to post to your post. I can see your points are at the bottom of the scale do you think that is just random ? I am not tying to pick a fight just please calm your post down and stick to the thread not personal attacks. There are other forums if you would like try them I am sure they would feel the same way.
LW

I have a life....I don't use the internet to make friends. You should try it sometime, then maybe you won't take posts so personally.

BTW, if you want to know what Mythology has to do with Religion, try reading ALL of the posts instead of just the last two or three. Jumping in the middle of a conversation without a clue as to what is being discussed should earn you an insult, but some people lack the intelligence to recognize their own ignorance, therefore I think the insult would just be wasted....

Your doing a great job at not making friends
 

I have been reading your thread and I can see you are a evil bastard. It is freaks like you that cause trouble where ever you go. You are a walking insult and I am sure many others find you be quite the rectum. Take your smell and go to another web site Bull **** R. No I do not own this site but I will not put up with communist pig like you.
LW

The Iliad and the Odyssey were traditional legends and fables written by Homer who did not profess to be a prophet. He recorded oral, epic poems that served to entertain the ancient Greeks. Entertainment does not equal a religion. There is question if Homer or group known as Homer even existed.

Are you claiming that Jesus of Nazareth didn’t exist? Christians, Muslims, and Jews all agree he existed in history, but disagree on his status. If you agree he existed in history, then that’s a start. Then all we might disagree on is his status as son of God or just any other human being like you or me.

I made no comment about "alternate beliefs" whatever that means. I did comment about Mythology and now Homer and Jesus existing one way or another.

:hifive:

Go Christians! Ra Ra Ra!

I'm ok siding with the "not too bad" group.... :D

When I've had too much to drink, after one of my "lateNights" and I wake up early the next morning. I know who I pray to, in hopes that I'll feel better instead of feeling like I'm gonna die ;)

LAF

Now I'm a communist....

and here all this time I thought I thought Christians were idiots.

Likewise, the authors of the Bible were not prophets. They were simple men who wrote stories that involved their god. Not unlike Homer, wouldn't you say?

Not to mention that is but one example. The Iliad and the Odyssey are considered the first works (of those that survived to modern times), not the only works....as is the case with the Bible. Remember all that "documentation" you were talking about yesterday?

No I'm not, but you certainly cannot prove that he did exist either.

I have no problem with the concept that he was just a man preaching a message of peace....it's the "miracles" I refuse to believe.

The "problem" here is that, as with the astronomy thread, you are relying on the majority as your "proof". Religion is not democracy, and just like with the flat-Earth concept, it is quite possible for the majority to be completely and entirely wrong.

So I'll ask you again, can you even prove that Jesus existed or is the Bible and faith all you have, all you've ever had, and all you ever will have?

The belief/worship of the Greek Gods is an "alternate belief".
Islam is an alternate belief.
Buddhism is an alternate belief.

Long story short....

Tell me Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead without one shred of evidence outside of your 1 source, and we've got a problem.


Tell me you have faith and therefore don't need scientific evidence and I'll drop the subject because there's nothing for me to argue there.

There were dozens of divinely inspired writers who contributed to the Bible over hundreds of years. Some were prophets, some were disciples, some prisoners, but all had the spirit of God in their minds, hearts, and souls. We know this because they plainly said so. Contrast that to Homer recording fables or Dr Seuss writing stories. Even if such fables or stories hold some truth, this would have no bearing one way or the other on the validity of the Bible.


In large part, my proof is that the majority of people on the planet (Christians, Jews, and Muslims) believe he existed. That is considerable evidence. How many believe that Greek Mythology is the one true religion? I cannot name a single person who believes such. Do you believe the Iliad and Odyssey are non-fictional works that are historical and religious in context?


Then you have never witnessed a “miracle” yourself? Have you ever prayed in Christ’s name and had your prayer answered? If not, then it comes as little surprise that you have no faith in Christ. I find that most people who believe in Christ do so out of personal experience. In other words, seeing is believing. Likewise have you prayed to Zeus and then witnessed your prayer answered against all odds? Is so, then I can understand why you believe in what you do. Again seeing is believing.


Are you saying that statistically speaking, the vast majority of people on earth are more often wrong than right? I happen to believe that mankind is more often right than wrong, and so do most modern scholars and psychologists. The “problem” is usually when an individual thinks the world is wrong yet he or she is right. Certainly, there is always the remote possibility that the whole world is wrong and that you are right, in which case the correct action is to keep your mouth shut about it. Why?

You and society are linked together whether you like it or not. To know the truth, you have to believe in something and then act on it. Society will give you plenty of feedback. This site is one example. Now if society decides to hang you for heresy or treason then at least you will die secure in the knowledge that you contributed something to our party!


Proof:
- Documentation: Old and New Testament, Dead Sea Scrolls, nearly all of Theology
- World Consensus: Substantial statistical proof that Jesus existed
- Experience: As a Christian, I am a living testament to the miracles I have witnessed and prayers than I have seen answered against all odds.
- Even the number of “Bible codes” would suggest this is not your average book


To put mythology on par with Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, etc. puts you in a tiny minority statistically speaking, and possibly matching those who believe Man did not land on the moon, or that the WTC towers was as inside job, or that the world is still flat.

Awesome reply!!:peace::hifive::clap:

Hear, hear I second that
 

Very well written. I could not agree more :clap:
Isaac

A marble relief, found in Italy but thought to have been sculpted in Egypt, depicts the apotheosis of Homer. It shows Ptolemy and his wife/sister Arsinoe III standing beside a seated Homer. The poet is shown flanked by figures from the Odyssey and Iliad, with the nine Muses standing above them and a procession of worshippers approaching an altar, believed to represent the Alexandrine Homereion. Apollo, god of music and poetry, also appears, along with a female figure tentatively identified as Mnemosyne, the mother of the Muses. Zeus, the king of the gods, presides over the proceedings. The relief demonstrates vividly how the Greeks considered Homer not just a great poet, but the divinely inspired source of all literature.[2]

That's from wikipedia. As you can plainly see, your thoughts are based on opinion alone, not easily accessible and readily verifiable fact....and again, we're talking about 2 parts of 1 story and only 1 author.

C'mon dude, you can't even debunk Homer while not being able to name one author of the Bible.


As I stated, the difference between Mythology and Religion is the number of current believers. 2007 years ago, how many people do you think followed a monotheistic religion, much less Christianity? How about 3000 years ago? How about 5000? How about 10,000 years ago in the first recorded histories of man? Heck dude, monotheism didn't even appear until around 1500 BCE.

I hate to call you a zealot, since you don't make a religious reference in every other post, but you are clearly and intentionally overlooking the obvious with on this one. As I stated, religion isn't a Democracy...majority is irrelevant.
I don't pray to any alleged omnipotent being. Are you implying that any "miracle" you have witnessed doesn't have a scientifically related cause and affect?

Get real dude.....if ANY woman you know showed up pregnant tomorrow, would you believe it was an immaculate conception? Remember, intercourse doesn't have to happen for a pregnancy to occur, but but a meeting of sperm and egg must.
That is certainly not what I said. However, you cannot deny that the majority has been wrong on some relatively major issues be it a flat-Earth, or in your case, polytheistic beliefs. Heck, I'd go as far as to say you'd consider every non-Christian to be "wrong", regardless of their beliefs, correct?
I believe in Science. I assumed that was perfectly clear....please forgive me if it was not.


Obviously you and I have very different beliefs in what constitutes evidence. The Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls are heresay....that is, not first-hand accounts. The majority of theology does not support Christianity....while I will concede it is currently the most popular, it's numbers are easily surpassed by the number 2 and 3 religions combined (Muslim, Hindu), and of course that doesn't even take into account the numerous other religions found throughout the world. Simply put, Christians only make up about 1/3 of the total global population, and that's putting you in the same category as snake handlers, the Amish, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witness...aren't you proud? :)

Where's the cross?
Where are the bones?
God saves souls....are you implying only once that he considered removing the body as well? How convenient.
Or,the more likely case, you could just be another borderline zealot readily willing to overlook the obvious simply because it doesn't support your beliefs while waiting for the image of Mary to appear in another piece of toast.

Tell me, Brain, have you ever heard of "Pascal's Wager"? Personally, I fully understood the tenets of Pascal's Wager long before I knew the concept had a name. Basically, "PW" exposes atheism for the utterly foolhardy practice that it is. In plain english, it means that you have absolutely NOTHING to lose by choosing to believe in a creator/supreme being, and EVERYTHING to gain. Ok, so here we are, locked into the mortal coil, now...in Christianity, for example, choosing not to believe in God is the one impardonable sin that will land one's miserable ass in eternal hot water, agreed? Ok, so if there really IS a Christian God, then choosing to believe in Him would seem to be the logical and intelligent thing to do, would it not? If it turns out theres no God then you've lost nothing, correct? This is the same conclusion even the most theologically ignorant soldier arrives at when he finds himself in combat. Its where the saying "ya wont find a single athiest in a foxhole" comes from! So, where does that leave us? Well, to my way of thinking, it means that there are no REAL atheists, only those who PROFESS to be atheists. Yes, there are those who profess atheism...right up until they find themselves confronting their own mortality, then they recant.

Damn, if ol' Al didn't DO IT AGAIN !
"there ain't no atheist in fox holes" how the heck are ya gonna argue with that !!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :hifive: :bow: for rhertz and al

LOL...yup, the atheist recants...it would be funny if the stakes werent so damned high!

I would have to say, it doesn't make someone a "Zealot" to stand up against someone like you trying to claim everything they believe in is a lie..

I would say, bottom line.. it comes down to FAITH, either you have it or you don't. But don't try to stand there and be surprised if someone tries to argue with you when you call them crazy.

My first thought is our society’s (Merian Webster) definition of “literature”.

1archaic : literary culture2: the production of literary work especially as an occupation3 a (1): writings in prose or verse; especially : writings having excellence of form or expression and expressing ideas of permanent or universal interest (2): an example of such writings <what came out, though rarely literature, was always a roaring good story — People> b: the body of written works produced in a particular language, country, or age c: the body of writings on a particular subject <scientific literature> d: printed matter (as leaflets or circulars) <campaign literature>4: the aggregate of a usually specified type of musical compositions

I see no reference whatsoever to religion, spirit, or anything relating to such. Dr. Seuss is literature.


Wikipedia, LMAO. Did you actually reference Wikipedia in your attempt to prove that Mythology is a legitimate religion (on par with Christianity)? A true sign of the times I suppose.


Mark, Luke, Daniel, John, Mathew, Paul, Jeremiah, Job, Peter, and dozens more. How many names do you want me to name???


LOL, yeah a number that’s all. Let me ask you, would you rather work for $1 per year or $1,000,00 a year. After all, the difference is only a number of current dollars. It’s just a number. Numbers are irrelevant right? NOT! Numbers are very important.


Not true. Believe it or not, the Great Pyramid of Giza may be interpreted as a timeline and omen to the coming of Christ until recent times. The knowledge of the one God of Abraham and the coming of Christ dates back thousands of years as you describe. (5000 to 10000 years or more) Monotheism is one of the oldest forms of religion and has definitely without a doubt proven to be the most successful in overall history. What percentage of the billions on earth today believe in multiple gods? Jungle tribes maybe.


Majority is irrelevant. I cannot top that. You are your own best spokesperson on this topic. Just listen to yourself and imagine the consequences of the majority being irrelevant. There is little more that I can say.


Thank you for your honesty in this regard.


Yes, I am not only implying that, but banking on it as part of my faith. If you have never witnessed a miracle, then I invite you to read the bible and experience that possibility of a miracle beyond science to touch your life.


If a virgin is artificially inseminated, is she still a virgin? Does the name of the donor change that fact?

BC, no, not at all. AD, no, not if they are ill informed. But for someone with every opportunity to know Christ, yet purposely denies himself of that opportunity, well yeah, you got me!


Yeah me too. I am an engineer working in downtown Shreveport. My Bachelors degree in Science does not preclude me from being a religious person, much less a Christian.


That may be true. Two lawyers on opposing sides of the same case might interpret the same evidence differently. So I’m not bothered in the least by this suggestion.


The Bible is precisely a series of first hand accounts, however as I mentioned before, it is our own first hard accounts that shape our lives and determine our faith. I do not believe in the Bible without first proving to my own satisfaction that the message is real.


Dude, you totally lost me. Please speak clear English if you really want a thoughtful response.

Dude, I don’t even go to church each Sunday! But believing that Zeus is the God of God’s is just wack by almost anyone’s standards, even a moderate like me. Certainly you know this as you troll the boards.