Why Ron Paul Makes People Mad

[Isaac-Saxxon]

One reason presidential candidate Ron Paul makes people (particularly Republicans) angry is he the way he points out the glaring problems with the current Republican governing philosophy.

On Meet the Press with Tim Russert, he stated that he would eliminate the federal income tax and replace it- with nothing. Not the dubious and regressive "Fair Tax" proposed by Neil Boortz and John Linder, which often just seems like a way of re-arranging the current mess.

He wants to replace it with nothing.
http://www.rogersrants.com/blog/defa...kes-People-Mad

[LateNight]

This article points out a few things which should be so glaringly obvious. The Republican party... USED to be about smaller government, fiscal responsibility. Don't go around trying to be the worlds' policeman. These were ideas that even George Bush was spouting back when he ran in 2000.

On a side note.. I've always been registered as an Independent.. always had pretty much thought ALL republicans AND democrats were full of **** !
And I will admit I had absolutely no interest in politics. Considered myself pretty ignorant on the whole process.. But in the last 10 years or so, I started to get interested. And when I started to hear the things that Republicans were SUPPOSED to be about.. smaller government, fiscal responsibility, not be the world's policeman, a strong defense. I said to myself.. yeah, that sounds good, that sounds about right.. However, that is not what this current administration is about.

Now we've got the Patriot Act, they're pushin' for a national ID card.. illegal wire taps, Spending money like it's absolutely going out of style.. which it is by the way.. got some of the countries over there sayin' they don't want to be paid in American dollars for OIL..

We simply can not afford what we're tryin' to do anymore. Somebody has to reel the government back down to size. This economy bubble.. it's got to burst at some point. and we can wait until it burst in our face.. or we can try to start working on these problems in a more controlled manner.

Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate talking about these issues.. Every other candidate seems to me to be talking about more of the same ol' same ol'.

Somebody, someway has got to pay for the spending we've seen these last few years.. Where's it going to come from ?

[rhertz]

Originally Posted by LateNight

This article points out a few things which should be so glaringly obvious. The Republican party... USED to be about smaller government, fiscal responsibility. Don't go around trying to be the worlds' policeman. These were ideas that even George Bush was spouting back when he ran in 2000.

Yes, but then 911 happened in 2001. We were attacked on our own soil for the first time in my lifetime. It freaked a lot of people out including our President who clearly stated that changed his mission that day (to nearly unanimous support)

It seems to me that it is easy to catch our enemies after the event. In fact, they make it easy for us. They usually blow themselves up in the process. Catching bad guys cannot be the priority like it is at home on the streets for the police. The name of the game is preventing an attack in the first place. That means we have to go to the potential bad guys in an offensive manner before they can even get in a first punch. First punches are not acceptable against the United States.

We have not been attacked on that scale since 911. I have to assume that Bushes policies have been relatively successful and effective in preventing attacks in the last 7 years. I think that was his priority and here is why.

I imagine myself president and getting hit in a 911 attack. What would I do to keep it from happening again? Would I suddenly be willing to go deeper into debt than the day before? I probably would, just like I would borrow to save a family member. Would I go over to another country and stop future attack plans? I definitely would. Where would I go? I would go to places that hate our guts and want to assassinate our President, and make plans for terrorist attacks and assassination plans and stuff like that. I would also try to foster democracy in those areas so that maybe in the future, such attack planning may not be as numerious without monsterous dictators making it easy to keep the covers on the bad guys plans.

Now sure we could have just gone into Iraq and toppled Saddam and gotten the hell out without acting as the current "policeman". I don't know of very many politicians who didn't think Saddam was a major threat to us and/or our allies before we attacked. Such a notion would be sillly. We know he paid suicide bombers families for their suicide bombing "services". But if he just got out, then the "vacuum" would be filled by what? I'll tell you what. Radical Islam - Certainly not tolerant secular democracy which must be learned. Learned by who? Another successful democracy such as ourselves?

Now maybe you think Iraq is now a democracy or maybe you don't. I'm not sure myself. The final question is, "did we have to try?" I think so. There is a humanitarian aspect to the aftermath of war and the victors usually don't conquer and haul ass. They remain and influence the area and that is what pisses off the Radical Islamists so much. Any culture who hasn't changed in 100's or 1000's of years probably resists change. They don't like change so they hit us thinking it will help preserve their ideology..... dumbasses...

Originally Posted by LateNight

...not be the world's policeman, a strong defense. I said to myself.. yeah, that sounds good, that sounds about right.. However, that is not what this current administration is about.

I kindly disagree. How can you have a "strong defense" and not be "the world's policeman" to some degree. Sure we could back off, but we would have to accept some degree of attacks in exchange. Is an attack on our homeland acceptable once every 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? What's a good number. If we did hit countries without staying for a while at least, I don't think the world community would respect that, not that we are running a popularity contest. But if there has been a failure by this administration, it has been on the PR front both at home and overseas, despite the fact that we have had no attacks since 911. Imagine the mileage in the press that a democrat would get with such a record.

Originally Posted by LateNight

Now we've got the Patriot Act, they're pushin' for a national ID card.. illegal wire taps, Spending money like it's absolutely going out of style.. which it is by the way.. got some of the countries over there sayin' they don't want to be paid in American dollars for OIL..

Good Points. I'm for profiling arabs and to heck for being politically correct. Stuff like ID cards comes from trying to be "fair" in a PC sense. I hear you on the spending, but its the taxing and/or borrowing that has my panties all in a wad. As for being paid in dollars, I'm all for fair competition. May the best currency win!

Originally Posted by LateNight

We simply can not afford what we're tryin' to do anymore. Somebody has to reel the government back down to size.

There is no single person or branch of government who could be expected to do this. It would take 2 out of the 3 branches of government to cut the government's size by a large amount. I'm all for that but "the people" are the only ones that have the power to make this happen, not a single candidate. The good news is that if "the people" were to vote in Ron Paul, they would also likely vote in senators and congressmen who were like minded and then maybe change on the scale you are talking about could happen. But you would need to take on the teachers unions and washington lobbiests and all sorts of orgs feeding at the trough.

Originally Posted by LateNight

This economy bubble.. it's got to burst at some point. and we can wait until it burst in our face.. or we can try to start working on these problems in a more controlled manner.

I don't really agree with that either. If you look at a stock market chart over the past 100 years, in spite of fluctuations and even a bubble or two bursting, the average regression is always pointing up.

Past 100 Years

I'm just saying that the US still has the strongest economy on earth by far. If someone wants to invest in Peso's or Gold, or US stocks, let them. Yeah sure I wish there were no pesky fluctuations, cycles, and corrections in the markets. Eternal smooth sailing would be nice but that ain't happening. And yes there are things we can do to help keep us strong which are too numerous to go into.

Originally Posted by LateNight

Somebody, someway has got to pay for the spending we've seen these last few years.. Where's it going to come from ?

It comes from taxes. But here is the catch. If you increase tax rates, the economy suffers, while if you cut tax rates, then the economy gets a boost, which can lead to even more total tax revenues down the road) Basically if the republicans stay in the whitehouse, capital gains tax will remain at 15% or whatever it is. If Hilary gets elected, you can count on this doubling at least to 30-40% which will reek havoc on the stock market.

I'm sure Ron Paul wants to cut taxes which makes him a good guy IMHO. However I believe the issue is not who will become president but rather who should not become president. It is fine to pick 1 out of 10 candidates to vote for. But rather than becoming enamored by one guy, I'm willing to keep an open mind about voting for any of 7 or 8 out of the 10 candidates in order to keep that 1 or 2 candidates from winning no matter what. I will not throw away a vote against Hilary or Obama no matter what. And for what purpose? To express myself? Heh, I'll draw a picture or write a poem instead. I would easily vote for Bush again if he was running against those two and I thought for a moment that he could beat them.

As things stand, this country is nearly split red and blue. It is important not to let a very small minority 2% or less decide the outcome of our future. I don't like things that are simple black and white but sometimes I must choose sides. I'm chosing the lesser of two evils, which is usually the case in politics...

[vixweb]

:clap big:

[LateNight]

Originally Posted by rhertz

Yes, but then 911 happened in 2001. We were attacked on our own soil for the first time in my lifetime. It freaked a lot of people out including our President who clearly stated that changed his mission that day (to nearly unanimous support)

9/11 9/11 9/11 If we turn ourselves all freakin' upside down... because of 9/11.. then they already freakin' won.

I would go on a complete freakin' rant about it.. but everyone here is so freakin' caught up in 9/11 and content to let the government get bigger and bigger and bigger, so they can protect us from the all the evils in the world.

Be careful.. you just might end up getting what you wish for.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

looking at all the polls that came out today RP does not stand a chance. I agree with rhertz here on this one. Nothing personal LN just viewing the issues and thinking RP is way off on his foreign policy.

[Al Swearengen]

I'm chosing the lesser of two evils, which is usually the case in politics...

Yeah, and that's exactly what we've always had to do...until now. Now, for the first time, ya have an opportunity to vote for someone with real integrity and credibility backed by a solid voting record, for a man who walks it like he talks it. This time ya have a true republican to vote for as opposed to those bogus-ass party hacks. This time ya have a choice, and a chance to fix what's wrong with this country. Squander this opportunity, and when things get really phucked up, and I guarengoddamntee ya they will if Paul isnt elected, you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves. As for those of us who voted for Dr. Paul? We'll blame you...the sheople.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

Yeah, and that's exactly what we've always had to do...until now. Now, for the first time, ya have an opportunity to vote for someone with real integrity and credibility backed by a solid voting record, for a man who walks it like he talks it. This time ya have a true republican to vote for as opposed to those bogus-ass party hacks. This time ya have a choice, and a chance to fix what's wrong with this country. Squander this opportunity, and when things get really phucked up, and I guarengoddamntee ya they will if Paul isnt elected, you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves. As for those of us who voted for Dr. Paul? We'll blame you...the sheople.

We have always had a choice Al. This if you do not vote for the Doctor your voting against this country attitude is just what is running many people off from the Doctor. I do not like his foreign policy and the guy sounds and looks like a dork when he speaks this bothers me. I will like you just the same if you do vote for him and if he does make the cut and is the GOP man then I would back him but not until then. One man against the system I do not think so.

[Al Swearengen]

Come on man, what do ya mean he "looks and sounds like a dork"? As compared to who? That monkey that's in office now? The lyin deviant gun-grabbin maggot that was there before the monkey? I dont think so. Dr. Paul looks and sounds as presidential as any and more so than most. And yes, one man can take on the system...he's doin that right this second with this incredible grassroots movement and the moneybombs. We intend to force congress to cooperate with President Paul or they can start lookin for work. Ya cant fight "terrorism"...get that thru your heads. This country is bleedin money and troops like a stuck pig with no end in sight. We have domestic issues that urgently need attention. We won the goddamn war. It's over. Forget the war. Forget the war. Forget the war. Repeat as often as necessary.

It's either "We The People" or "You The Sheople"! It's your call. What's it gonna be?

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

Come on man, what do ya mean he "looks and sounds like a dork"? As compared to who? That monkey that's in office now? The lyin deviant gun-grabbin maggot that was there before the monkey? I dont think so. Dr. Paul looks and sounds as presidential as any and more so than most. And yes, one man can take on the system...he's doin that right this second with this incredible grassroots movement and the moneybombs. We intend to force congress to cooperate with President Paul or they can start lookin for work. Ya cant fight "terrorism"...get that thru your heads. This country is bleedin money and troops like a stuck pig with no end in sight. We have domestic issues that urgently need attention. We won the goddamn war. It's over. Forget the war. Forget the war. Forget the war. Repeat as often as necessary.

It's either "We The People" or "You The Sheople"! It's your call. What's it gonna be?

RP is a snowball in hell. Al nothing personal here buddy just calling it as I see it. Things could change ? RP has "some" noble ideas but his foreign policy is not good. You may want to think the war is over and if you keep telling yourself you might one day believe that it is. It is NOT ! Do not go to sleep on your watch. The wolf is at the door and I think President Bush is a very good President and has done a good job. Yes I know this will not sit well with you but it is what I think and how I voted. I never said Al that I would not vote for RP in the main election. I think his chances are not good. Hey he will be made rich by the people sending all the money to him and the idea that he is not a politician now that is laughable. RP best go see the oracle and soon. Up hill all the way for RP and his internet supporters. Doctors never make good leaders

[LateNight]

Originally Posted by Isaac-Saxxon

the idea that he is not a politician now that is laughable.

the man has consistently voted on principal.. using the rule of law and the Constitution to determine every vote he has made. lobbyists etc do not even bother to visit him, they no nothing will change his mind. When Republican leadership is requesting/demanding that they all vote a certain way on something.. they single out Ron Paul as to not be included. They no he will not be swayed by politics or pressure. His record speaks for itself.

Come debates.. the days leading up to them, your usual candidate locks himself away, pouring over their responses to see what answers poll better with the public.. Ron Paul goes through no such preparations.. his answers are based on the rule of law. And he will give his answers regardless of what he thinks the listeners want to hear.

Doesn't sound like any politician I've ever heard of.

how you folks continue to tie in Iraq to the war on terror is one huge mystery to me.

To me it appears that there is some phantom force that prevents Americans from thinking beyond the sound bite about real-world considerations and consequences. The pattern for political dialog is Hear, Feel, and React. Unfortunately, the words Think or Question do not appear in the normal dialog patterns of most Americans. We've become a nation of people trained to only see what we're told to see and to be absolutely comfortable ignoring the obvious.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

I live with my head in the sand Look around the world and see the facts. This problem is not going away and running home will just feed the beast. Yea I would love to love everybody and save tax dollars but it is so much more than that. If nobody will come talk to him about a vote then he will not get along with the Congress and he would be a lame duck. I think Howard Dean is a doctor too.

[Al Swearengen]

"I never said Al that I would not vote for RP in the main election"

Ya cant vote for him in the main election if he doesnt get the party nomination, and that's where we come in. He needs your support. Wake up and realize that it's in your best interest to give it to him. Defend America, defend your freedom. Lets flush the status quo down the crapper where it belongs. Let's take our country back from the bureaucrats and oligarchs. The time is NOW. Ya snooze, ya lose.

[Al Swearengen]

If you're mad at Ron Paul there's a good chance you're either a blithering idiot, a socialist democrat or a bogus republican.

[rhertz]

Originally Posted by LateNight

9/11 9/11 9/11 If we turn ourselves all freakin' upside down... because of 9/11.. then they already freakin' won.

I believe we are turning ourselves upside down with political correctness and liberalism, high taxes, excess entitlements, global warming, and anti-this and anti-that...and Pro-nothing.. 9/11 just amped things up because all the 9/11 terrorists were all muslims. It would have been better had there been two blacks, and two whites, and two christians, and two muslims, and two jews, etc., etc. But that is not how things went down. The war on terror is not politically correct, and everyone is pissed because that fact didn't stop Bush from taking care of business.

However.........I would (and will) vote for Ron Paul in a New York second if he is THE republican frontrunner up against the DNC freak show. Oh I wish... But I can't count on it. Not yet anyway. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Originally Posted by LateNight

I would go on a complete freakin' rant about it.. but everyone here is so freakin' caught up in 9/11 and content to let the government get bigger and bigger and bigger, so they can protect us from the all the evils in the world. Be careful.. you just might end up getting what you wish for.

Government has been growing looooong before 9/11 which again just amped things up. The whole problem is expectations of citizens of a democracy. When government is expected to defend our borders and create roads and commerce, things are great. Maybe even go to the moon! But when government is expected to provide food, medicine, legal defense, health care, and everything under the sun, not only to citizens but to non-citizens, then things go awry. Then they forget to build roads and defend borders, etc.

It is not easy to shut off funding to Israel, the Palentinians, or to a starving African country once it has started. This mess started before I was born. Just look at history regarding who started the spending and who didn't. The only crazy democratic spending program that I ever agreed with was the space programs. Had the soviets beat us to the moon and continued to dominate that technology, there would be nukes up there right now, I'm sure.