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Old 03-19-2007, 07:41 AM   #1
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Post What Do You Think Of The Confederate Flag?

The Sons of Confederate Veterans waged war this week with a Florida art museum over artwork featured in a Black History Month art exhibition.
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:56 AM   #2
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Yeah, I saw a clip on Youtube where a similar debate has gone on right here in Shreveport over the Conderate flag.



I'm not sure about my views on the topic. I'm not bothered by the Confederate flag in the least, but I know there are those that are.
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:41 AM   #3
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I have asked a handful of people why they fly the Confederate flag and the answer is always the same. "It's not about racism, it's about heritage," which does not answer my question. I'm not sure what that statement means. The heritage of the Confederate states? The heritage of the south?

In addition, when the South seceded, they did so illegally (not that there is any legal way to secede.) The land, infrastructure, homes, government institutions, etc. were all funded, acquired by or under the authority of the Union, and in seceding, the Confederates were in essence stealing the land, roads, and infrastructure from the Union.

Also, a prevailing idea in that the Civil War was fought over States Rights vs. Federal Jurisdiction. President Lincoln believed that if slavery was to be abolished, it was a large enough moral issue that it would have to be abolished throughout the Union as a whole in order to preserve the Union.

Finally, it could be debated that the Confederates just simply wanted to continue with slavery.

Whichever way I slice it, I still don't see a reason for flying the Confederate flag, and I don't understand "the heritage" that people are trying to remember.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:53 AM   #4
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>In addition, when the South seceded, they did so illegally (not that there is any legal way to secede.) The land, infrastructure, homes, government institutions, etc. were all funded, acquired by or under the authority of the Union, and in seceding, the Confederates were in essence stealing the land, roads, and infrastructure from the Union.

1. Where did the Federal government get its money? Was the South not paying taxes at the time?

2. Isn't that how we got our country in the first place? By doing the same thing to the British?

You don't understand that people are proud to be associated with an institution that was willing to go to war (that it was almost certain to lose) to defend its principles?

The civil war was about states' rights. Slavery was an issue, but not the most important and certainly not the only.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:07 AM   #5
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Hear, hear for JOEPOLE

Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
>In addition, when the South seceded, they did so illegally (not that there is any legal way to secede.) The land, infrastructure, homes, government institutions, etc. were all funded, acquired by or under the authority of the Union, and in seceding, the Confederates were in essence stealing the land, roads, and infrastructure from the Union.

1. Where did the Federal government get its money? Was the South not paying taxes at the time?

2. Isn't that how we got our country in the first place? By doing the same thing to the British?

You don't understand that people are proud to be associated with an institution that was willing to go to war (that it was almost certain to lose) to defend its principles?

The civil war was about states' rights. Slavery was an issue, but not the most important and certainly not the only.
Well stated Joepole. The Confederate flag has been taken away from people under the banner of "discrimination" towards blacks. That is BS They can take it how they would like but the bottom line is put your heart in Dixie or get your ass out !
Isaac
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joepole
>In addition, when the South seceded, they did so illegally (not that there is any legal way to secede.) The land, infrastructure, homes, government institutions, etc. were all funded, acquired by or under the authority of the Union, and in seceding, the Confederates were in essence stealing the land, roads, and infrastructure from the Union.

1. Where did the Federal government get its money? Was the South not paying taxes at the time?

2. Isn't that how we got our country in the first place? By doing the same thing to the British?

You don't understand that people are proud to be associated with an institution that was willing to go to war (that it was almost certain to lose) to defend its principles?

The civil war was about states' rights. Slavery was an issue, but not the most important and certainly not the only.

1. The Federal Government got its money from citizens of the United States, not from citizens of the "South".

2. We got our country by LEAVING the geographic location of England to start a new country, not TAKING the geographic location of England.

People are proud to be associated with an institution that was willing to go to war to defend its principles of keeping other human beings as slaves? No matter who makes the decision, slavery is/was wrong. The war was about the states' rights to choose whether or not they abolished slavery.

Furthermore, you are asserting that the states had some sort of supremacy or sovereignty (which never existed) over the Federal government. The states did not join the Union as states, they joined as territories, were purchased or conquered, then were given the power of states.

In Abraham Lincoln’s Special Message to Congress, July 4, 1861, he outlined the rationale of the advocates of secession:

“They invented an ingenious little sophism, which, if conceded, was followed by perfectly logical steps, through all the incidents, to the complete destruction of the Union. The sophism itself is that any state of the Union may, consistently with the national Constitution, and therefore lawfully, and peacefully, withdraw from the Union, without the consent of the Union, or of any other state. The little disguise that the supposed right is to be exercised only for just cause, themselves to be the sole judge of its justice, is too thin to merit any notice.”

Lincoln continues:

The States have their status IN the Union, and they have no other legal status. If they break from this, they can only do so against law, and by revolution. The Union, and not themselves separately, procured their independence, and their liberty. By conquest, or purchase, the Union gave each of them, whatever of independence, and liberty…Unquestionably, the States have the powers, and rights, reserved to them in, and by the National Constitution; but among these, surely, are not included all conceivable powers, however mischievous, or destructive; but, at most, such only, as were known in the world, at the time, as governmental powers; and certainly, a power to destroy the government itself, and never been know as governmental—as a merely administrative power…Whatever concerns the whole, should be confided to the whole—to the general government; while, whatever concerns only the State, should be left exclusively, to the state.
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:18 PM   #7
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>We got our country by LEAVING the geographic location of England to start a new country, not TAKING the geographic location of England.

What exactly happened on THIS continent in the late 1770s, then?

>The States have their status IN the Union, and they have no other legal status.

Exactly, the states of the confederacy felt that the Federal government was not living up to its end of the bargain. Our country was never intended to be a Federal government that ruled over the states, it was intended to be a Federal government that protected the common interests of the states, something many felt wasn't happening. Most Americans at the time (and many today) felt a much stronger affiliation with their home town/state/region than with their country.
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:21 PM   #8
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>The war was about the states' rights to choose whether or not they abolished slavery.

This is just completely wrong. The war was about protecting the interests of less populous, agrarian states vs. the interests of the states that contained the industrial/commercial centers of the country.
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