A Horror Story For Four Young Children

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Texasbelle

I guess it smarts to have your toes stepped on and to have someone disagree so strongly with you. There is a quite a distinction between disagreeing with someone and criticism. It's time to learn the difference.

My toes are fine. Strong disagreement does not make one right. Neither does heated or pointed responses. Would "drink the Kool Aid" disagreement or criticism? I guess my definition and yours are just different. Perhaps you are the one who does not handle the strong disagreement?

One life experience does not define all the others who wish to express without disdain. There is no way for you to know the personal experience, knowledge, faith, or varied background that each individual represents. What you can realize is that your's is not the only one represented here.

In truth, whether she was mentally competent or not is even an issue. She will not have to face the legal system. As joepole says, problem solved.

[Texasbelle]

Originally Posted by Sheba

My toes are fine. Strong disagreement does not make one right. Neither does heated or pointed responses. Would "drink the Kool Aid" disagreement or criticism? I guess my definition and yours are just different. Perhaps you are the one who does not handle the strong disagreement?

One life experience does not define all the others who wish to express without disdain. There is no way for you to know the personal experience, knowledge, faith, or varied background that each individual represents. What you can realize is that your's is not the only one represented here.

In truth, whether she was mentally competent or not is even an issue. She will not have to face the legal system. As joepole says, problem solved.

No the problem is not solved sister because the country is full of people just like you who do not seem to understand the situation at hand. It is that discussion we have been having today and it's led to this long, heated thread. My life experience with it (mental illness and depression) is the same experience that thousands of others across this country are experiencing DAILY!. Perhaps you haven't experienced, perhaps it's going on in your own homoe right now with someone and you don't realize it, perhaps you have a coworker severely depressed and you don't realize it, and the point is that it is very real. It touches more lives than you can know and it might just be your life next. I do realize that we all share different experiences here which is what we like to share with each other and learn from each other. Perhaps you have missed that?

I suggest this to you before you keep trying to hack away at me for trying to get you to see what perhaps could have led this woman down this road, why don't you take the time to read up on depression? Why don't you Google "Mothers who kill children"? Read those stories and statistics for awhile and see if your attitude changes. Why don't you spend some time perhaps on the Suicide Prevention hotline and talk to these people and see if your attitude changes? I think it would. God did not put us on this earth to tear each other down but rather to lift each other up. These people really need our strong shoulders to lean on and our voices to speak out and get them some help.

[LateNight]

well this thread is going nowhere.. so let me give it another whack

I believe there are two issues here.. as far as how people react to this..

I don't believe that the problem here is that people don't understand "depression". Certainly some people can understand it more than others.. be it personal experience, with one's self or a family member, or just a simple understanding in general.

It's not that I don't believe others here would be capable of helping another in need.. or do their best to lift one another's spirit should someone be feeling down and out or depressed.

And YES some people get so depressed.. they may need to be hospitalized, or they may need medication. And I'm sure most here can understand that.

HOWEVER I believe the problem everyone is having with finding ANY acceptance in this, is the fact that she killed her children.

It's a difficult thing to comprehend. I believe it's easier just to be MAD at the mother and be done with it. I've never experienced a family member committing suicide.. but I'm sure possibly one of the early reactions to such a thing, would be to be ANGRY at that person.. only after some reflection, could I try to begin to comprehend why they would do such a thing.

However.. if that family member, took out other family members FIRST, and then killed themselves.. I'd be PISSED at them.. and probably stay that way for a long time. I mean come on.. on a good day, you might try to understand why someone would kill them self. But understand why they took out the other family member first.. NO, I would never accept that. I just don't see how I could.

Now, if this mother had survived, she would certainly go to trial.. it would be argued whether or not she was competent to stand trial.. As it is, we can only GUESS what was going through her mind. I haven't read any of these news stories, so I don't know the particulars.. but generally speaking.. who knows, maybe she could have been depressed.. but to what degree.. maybe she was depressed, or maybe she was angry, had other motives for killing her children ?

I'll say it again.. could be her mind was so freakin' broken from depression.. what other reason could there be right ? But at the same time, even if you can UNDERSTAND depression.. understanding it to a point to accept that this person couldn't be held accountable for killing her own children.. that's another stretch all together.

ramble ramble ramble.. sorry.

[Texasbelle]

Latenight it was a good ramble!

I don't want you to think that I find her actions acceptable or that I am ok with them. I am not by no stretch. In our world more than 29 nations do not even allow the death penalty handed out to mothers who kill children if they are mentally ill. This must tell you something about how serious some people do take this and the thought process many have put into it. Serious research has been done on mothers and depression which is very much the reason why these countries do not allow the harshest of punishments. It is a hard, hard thing to comprehend and understand. I don't fully get it but I do understand it more now than I did a year ago.

I can tell you about the anger. Yes, you do get mad at them. You get very mad but the first thing I had to realize was that my mom the one I knew and loved would never have hurt me so much. The one who took her life was not the one who raised me. She was a very ill person who was hurting so much deep in her soul that she thought she was doing the right thing for herself and her children. It all sounds so strange I am sure but it is the way these people think. Lots of these mothers think they are "saving" their children by killing them. To me ultimately what I have learned is that mental illness is very real and one of the most difficult diseases to deal with. I routinely watch a cancer doctor treating his patients and it does not appear to be nearly so difficult as the mentally ill. This has all been my "take" on it and I have sure appreciated yours and Anime's discussion and what you've brought to the table. I am sure we can all take something from this and learn from it.

[Pocahontas]

This entire situation is such a travesty! Why oh why did she have to kill her children? One by one tying those babies and hanging them...it's so gruesome and awful! I don't understand at all how any mother under any condition could kill her babies!!! May those babies be resting peacefully now in a better place!

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Pocahontas

This entire situation is such a travesty! Why oh why did she have to kill her children? One by one tying those babies and hanging them...it's so gruesome and awful! I don't understand at all how any mother under any condition could kill her babies!!! May those babies be resting peacefully now in a better place!

Simply my whole point... Hope you don't get called uninformed or a Kool Aid drinker, too, Pocahontas.

BTW Great thoughts, LateNight!! Very well articulated heart felt reaction to this situation. Thanks for taking time to "take a hack at it".

Just because I don't jump to the mother's defense does not mean that I lack understanding of depression or haven't read up on statistics. I am a child advocate by career choice and by calling, and it is their perspective that I hold has priority. Mom's the adult killer. She chose to slip those nooses one by one around their necks. It is the children who need the compassion, only they have been denied the chance for their spirits to be lifted..

[LateNight]

Originally Posted by Texasbelle

Latenight it was a good ramble!

I don't want you to think that I find her actions acceptable or that I am ok with them. I am not by no stretch.

I certainly don't think that. And was not my intention to insinuate such.

It's just such a horrendous act. To do what she did.. It just takes an extreme understanding.. Your understanding... to take that leap. And I suppose you are right.

Bottom line, it's easier for me to accept, her mind was SO BROKEN from depression/psychosis that she could do such a thing.. than to believe there was ANY OTHER reason. It boggles the mind.

[BrainSmashR]

TB, everyone here understand what you are saying. Depression is a harmful disease, but you have to draw the line somewhere, and for most of US, that line is on the other side of harming others in any shape or form and WAAAAY on the other side of hanging children. No argument's right?

When this woman decided to hang her children, the priority became removing her from society, not treating her condition.....which is what you appear to continue to emphasizing because you are an indirect victim of depression. We relate to the children, you're relating to the murderer because of events that have taken place in your life.


Just like in the Scott Peterson trial, I related to the guy being accused of murder without any hard evidence proving his guilt....and I STILL feel that way. There was no DNA evidence, no murder weapon, no bullet with ballistics testing matching it to a gun, the guy had already gotten away with 1 affair before, so there wasn't even a motive......and all of that probably sounds just as crazy to you as your story does to the rest of us...because most of you relate to the victim, not the perp....."What if that had been me and my baby".....right?

Events in my life have made me sympathetic to those who's guilt is acknowledged based on circumstantial evidence alone, regardless of the crime, just like yours have made you sympathetic to people suffering from depression regardless of how heinous their crimes may be......


I'm trying understanding today, but TB, at some point YOU have to realize everyone here is telling you basically the same thing, because we all know this approach is out of character for me and won't last very long.

[BrainSmashR]

Well I think I edited the above post to death. The point is that we ALL have subjects it is impossible for us to be objective on.

For me it's evidence, for you, TB, it's depression, for Isaac it's religion, for Al it's guns.....and I would think these "conditions" if you will, are more than obvious about each of us to everyone here that's been paying attention.