What does it mean to be anti-Semitic ??

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Nothing would do more at the moment to clear the atmosphere of mental fog than for citizens of this country to take a look into the past and find out the actual meaning of anti-Semitism. What a bugaboo it has become through deceptive use ! When all the camouflage is removed, the term "anti-Semitism" simply means "against Semites."
Who, then, are Semites ? Semites are the descendants of
Noah's son Shem. Therefore, anti-Semitism" meaning literally antagonism toward all the descendants of Shem, cannot be applied honestly to a small segment of people called Jews, many of whom are not even of Semitic origin,
as we shall see. It is true that Abraham was a Semite, being in the direct line of Shem; but there were ten generations from Shem to Abraham -- all of them Semites.
Furthermore, Abraham himself was the progenitor of several distinct racial strains besides the Israelites. First, there was Ishmael, son of Abraham by Sarah's maid Hagar, whose descendants have been identified as the Arabs of today. Next, there was Esau, Jacob's twin brother, who became the father of the Edomites, Known also as Idumeans. Russia of today. Then another separate line resulted from Abraham's six sons by Keturah. All these Abrahamic peoples and their descendants to this day are Semites,
although they are not Israelites. Thus, in waging their campaign of hate against the Arabs, the Jews themselves are really anti-Semitic in a big way.
Arabs know about their Semitic background and claim Abraham as their father. They are taught in the Koran that Abraham
built the city of Mecca for Ishmael. This seems credible when we consider Abraham's deep concern for Ishmael's welfare. Actually,
Arab leaders are amazed by Anglo-Saxon stupidity on the subject. Jewish leaders, too, are much better informed on these racial
origins than Christians; but the success of their plans for world domination depends upon keeping Christendom blindfolded and sympathetic toward their aims, by sending out a steady stream of unholy propaganda regarding the Holy Land.
As a matter of fact, neither Jews nor Arabs hold an exclusive right to Palestine.

Gen. 35:11-12
"A nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; and the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land."

We now begin to see why it is so important for Christian-Israel nations to know their origin. No wonder God commanded us to examine our racial beginning in Abraham and Sarah. Today our very existence as free peoples is jeopardized by wholesale ignorance on this vital subject. If Anglo-Saxons (Isaac-Saxons) should suddenly come to a realization of their Israel-Joseph origin,
the vehement flame of Zionism would be extinguished swiftly by a mighty wave of righteous indignation !

[Al Swearengen]

I sort of had a hunch where you were going with the above post..but it wasn't until the end that I KNEW for certain. You're obviously another one of these folks that believes all of the world's ills can be laid squarely at the feet of the jews. For the record, I myself am Christian..just wanted to make that clear before I go on. I already know how you, sir, will define "zionism". You'll say that zionism is a jewish supremecy movement..sort of a jewish version of the KKK. But zionism is merely support for Israel as a jewish nation state. Zionism is also the concept that Israel is the ancestral home of the jews. Zionism has many definitions, but none of them espouse the idea of jewish supremecy. I would be willing to bet that you own a copy of "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". "The Protocols" have been proven to be utterly bogus...but then you probably already knew that. But you wouldn't dream of letting an inconvenient little fact like that get in the way..that might completely invalidate your belief system.

Thus, in waging their campaign of hate against the arabs, the Jews themselves are really anti-semitic in a big way

Sir, get real. Israel is in the eye of an Arabic/Islamic storm that constantly threatens it's survival. It isn't the jews that are going around chopping off people's heads. Its not the jews that strap bombs to their bodies and murder innocent civilians wholesale. I dont recall the jews declaring their intentions to wipe the arabs/muslims off the face of the earth.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the holocaust...though I've got a pretty good idea what you'd say about that, as well.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

I have not ever read "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion". It does
sound as though you have. I have no connection to the KKK or any other
hate group. I defend Christanity and I have studied the history of there
origins. Why is it that American defends the Jews and hey they dont have
any oil and we still defend them. The real decendants of Juda are causing
no problem and yes there was a holocaust. You may want to take a bit
of time and trace a few migrations to find the facts. The tribe of Juda
was only one of twleve tribes and it has been deluded by outsiders
starting about 600 B.C. and by the time Christ was on the scene there
where no true Jews of Juda even left in the priesthood. (NONE) I am all
for our brothers the children of Juda and we will join them at the end.
I am not for infiltrators that say they are Jews and are not but of that
evil one. I am sure not in support of the Arabs in any way. Herod and
Ciapas where Edomites and with just a small bit of homework you will
find that out !

[Al Swearengen]

Isaac-Saxxon wrote:

There are Jews and those who say they are Jews

Really? Given the fact that Jews have historically been the most persecuted ethno-religious group in the world, the above statement is patently absurd. Declare your Jewishness and you might as well walk around with a big bullseye on your back. Who in the hell would call themselves Jewish if they were not? To what end?

Isaac-Saxxon wrote:

Jewish leaders, too, are much better informed on these racial origins than Christians, but the success of their plans for world domination depends upon keeping Christiandom blindfolded and sympathetic towards their aims, by sending out a steady stream of unholy propoganda regarding the holy land

The above are your words verbatim, and yet you say you have never read "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion"? I don't believe you. That garbage you spewed sounds like it was lifted word for word from "The Protocols". World domination? The Jews? Surely you jest.

Isaac-Saxxon wrote:

I have no connection to the KKK or any other hate group

I never said you did. I said that you would define zionism as " a Jewish supremecy movement..sort of a Jewish version of the KKK". Do you deny that this is your contention? If so, then I'd like to see you say as much in print.

You then stated the question

Why is it that American defends the Jews and hey they dont have any oil and we still defend them?

I'll tell you why. We defend them because they are perhaps the most persecuted people on the planet. In the 1940's, the Third Reich did their level damndest to murder as many of these people as they possibly could. As it turned out, they put one hell of a dent in the Jewish population. Who came to their aid, albeit a day late and a dollar short? We did! Fast forward to 2006, and the only difference is that their persecutors aren't wearing fancy black uniforms and swastikas, they now wear the robes and head-dresses of the bedouin. Every arab/muslim nation wants to see Israel wiped off the map. Actually, they want Israel for themselves, they just want to get rid of all the Israelis. As I said in my earlier post, Israel is surrounded by enemies. As a result of this, Israel has probably the best military in the world, man for man. In 1973, Israel was attacked by and singlehandedly defeated a coalition of Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq, as well as supplementation in the form of men, money and materiel from ten other nations. Ponder this for a few minutes. How did the tiny nation state of Israel defeat the combined forces of no less than fourteen arab countries? And they did it all on their own. These good and determined people vowed "never again!" "Never again" would they allow their enemies to decimate their population and drive them from their homes! But I believe the divine hand of God was in play. Their cause was just. They are truly a nation worthy of our friendship, and our assistence, should the need ever arise.

and hey they dont have any oil and we still defend them

So, you're saying that since Israel has no oil to give us we should stand by and watch as the arab/muslim nations wage their war of attrition? How about we defend them because its the right thing to do? By way of analogy, lets say I'm walking down the street one day when I pass an alley where you, sir, are being accosted by four men. I can clearly see that you have little or no money with which to reward me for coming to your rescue. What would you want me to do, sir? Would you understand if I just kept on walking, since my only reward would likely be injury or worse to myself? Of course not...you would prevail upon me to render aid for the singularly altruistic reason that you are a fellow human being in need of assistence. Are you an American, sir? Part of being an American is standing up for the little guy..for the underdog...for the oppressed. I would ask you, sir, where is your compassion?... you clearly have none when it comes to the people of Israel.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

That might be you Sir ! Jews do not make up the whole of Israel they are
but but one small tribe. The problem is that people are content to think
that ten tribe Israel just vanished. Ever heard of the ten lost tribes ? I know
that would take some reading and you wont find it in the news paper. You
may want to start with the Bible and then some history books too. Juda
was deported to Babylon and the ten tribes where deported north to
Assyria. The ten tribes of Israel NEVER came back they went thru the
Caucusses in to Europe. Juda did return to Jerusalum in small numbers
and NEVER filled the terms of a Christian nation. When the Jews came
back there where alot of peoples mixxed with them. True Juda only makes
up a small part of the people that claim to be Jews. How did the Jews
win the war aginst the Arabs let me quote Rabine "American money
and French wepons" a study on the war of 1917 when the Brits took
Jerusalum form the Ottoman Turks with out a shot might help you ?
Maybe a read in the book of Daniel too. It was 1948 when the planting
of the good and Bad fig tree took place in Jerusalum. I like my brother
Juda but the bad fig that is the tares have mixxed and cause Juda
alot of pain. The harvest is near ! Parable of the Tares or Sower might
help you Al ! Then again you might think Eve ate a apple ? Ever looked ?
The Arab attack is on Christianity and we protect the Jews because they
are our brothers. Ever notice that the Arabs and Persians dont allow
wine to be at there table ? "This is MY blood, take drink in remberance
of Me" Christ speaking . UK and USA make up the large part of the ten
tribes that is why I speak of Juda as a brother but the Jews that say
they are Jews and are not but are of the Synagogue of Satan are the
trouble makers. FYI the Arabs seed was rejected early on with Abraham
and they will be trouble makers untill Christ second advent. The Edomites
(Russia) help fan the flames of hate among the Arabs and many other
countries but our left wing thinks they are our buddies ? What do you
think of Russia Al ?

[joepole]

>You may want to start with the Bible and then some history books too.

At least you admit the Bible isn't a history book. That's a start.

[Al Swearengen]

Isaac-Saxxon wrote:

How did the Jews win the war against the arabs let me quote Rabine "American money and french weapons"

I knew you would bring this up, because it has exactly zero relevance to the issue at hand. Yes, Israel's armed forces were mainly equipped with weaponry made in the West. So what? Guess who equipped the arabs? Thats right, Isaac...the Soviets. In fact, the arabs had the advantage over the Jews in every way. So whats your point? We didn't fight the war for them, if thats what you're implying. The Jews were vastly outnumbered and outgunned, yet they STILL prevailed. This is just another conspicuous attempt on your part to obfuscate the issue...sort of like you did with the "I have no connection to the KKK or any other hate group" statement.

You see, Isaac, I was content to allow you to ramble on, unchallenged, with the biblical minutiae....that was harmless enough. But when you started making those not-so-subtly veiled assertions that the Jews have some diabolical, machiavellian plan for world domination, I knew EXACTLY what you were about. What, you think you're the first closet nazi I've butted heads with? I saw you coming a country mile away, son. You figured "Hey, I'll just put them into a daze with my sleepy bible study lesson, then, when their eyes are just about to glaze over, I'll slip in a little subliminal Goebbelspeak on the sly". You're not fooling anyone, Isaac. See, your routine isn't as seamless as you think it is. You tipped your hand...exposed your agenda a bit too soon. This isn't "StormFront", or "The Aryan Nations Website", or "The American Nazi Party Website". Those are the proper venues for what you have in mind, and thats where you want to take your schtick.

You guys never learn!

[Isaac-Saxxon]

It would seem you always know what I am going to say before I say it. You must
have that all seeing eye Al. You have your blinders on and thats ok alot of
folks do. You may want to spend some time in the history books sir. Maybe
take a hour and read the book of Revelation it makes it real clear. You think
I have a hidden agenda ? Well now that agenda is the Bible and no where
does it advocate killing the Jews. Hey Al are you a Jew ? Yea I know you
said you are a Christian but you could still be a Jew. I can tell you are
still plugged in the Matrix and get your facts from the news. It is bleeding
hearts that have let our country down and let the subverters in our government. Man had to have a king (Saul) and look what it got us
nothing but trouble. You are fun to spar with. Have a great weekend I
will be back on line next Tuesday so get your jabs ready for next week.
Goats to the left and sheep to the right !

[kansast]

O.k. I'm claiming Godwin's Law

Godwin Law states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. [1]

There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. Thus Godwin's Law serves also to impose an upper bound on thread length in general.

It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's Law (in the above sense) will be unsuccessful. This is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception". "RGB's Restriction of Quirk's Exception", also states: "In cases where the subject of the comparison to Hitler fails to recognize the applicability of Quirk's Exception, Quirk's Exception shall not apply and Godwin's Law shall take effect in its normal manner."

P=(k^(1/n)) k<1 where P = the probablity of a reference to Hitler/Nazis, n = the number of posts, and k = a constant less than one depending on the subject of the post (k values for posts such as "Discuss WWII" will be much closer to 1 than the k value for a post labeled "Look at the cute doggies").

More Info on Godwin's Law

Having a open mind is good. Calling names is not productive. New thread please !

[rhertz]

Originally Posted by kansast

Godwin Law states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. [1]

More Info on Godwin's Law

Wow, Godwin's law even has a formula!

P=(k^(1/n)) k<1 where P = the probablity of a reference to Hitler/Nazis, n = the number of posts, and k = a constant less than one depending on the subject of the post (k values for posts such as "Discuss WWII" will be much closer to 1 than the k value for a post labeled "Look at the cute doggies"

[Al Swearengen]

KansasT wrote:

Godwin's law states :as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving nazis or Hitler approaches one

Yes, I'm well aware of this "law", and I'd be the first to agree that in most cases it is applicable. However, in cases such as this one, where one of the parties has demonstrated a clear intent to elicit a gut-level visceral response using emotionally charged subject matter (trolling), especially subject matter involving Israel, Israelis, or Jews, such comparisons to Nazis and/or Hitler are not only appropriate, they are warranted. Here, let me break down what I just said into bite-sized chunks for everyone...if the jackboot fits, wear it!


Cichlid Man wrote:

Having an open mind is good, calling names is not productive

Well, I'll tell ya Cich, my mind stays open all the way up to the point where somebody starts in with the "Zionism" crap..it stays open until somebody starts insinuating that the Jews are hellbent on world domination..then my mind slams shut like a steel trap. These people have endured far too much scapegoating and suffering at the hands of small-minded malcontents on a centuries long witchhunt.

Isaac-Saxxon wrote:

Hey Al, are you a Jew? Yea I know you said you are a Christian but you could still be a Jew

I'm about as far from being Jewish as YOU can get, Isaac. But when the little Eichmanns of the world start spouting inflammatory nonsense, I immediately swap out my Christian Cross for the Star of David. I instantly convert to Judaism, at which point I become more Jewish than the most Jewed-up Jew who ever practiced Judaism in Judea.

Look people, I didn't enjoy this any more than any of you did, but I feel we all have a personal responsibility, no make that an obligation, to call guys like Isaac here out on the carpet when-ever and where-ever they erupt. Ok, I've said all I'm going to say on this subject. Isaac, no hard feelings..have a good weekend.

[rhertz]

Originally Posted by Al Swearengen

Yes, I'm well aware of this "law", and I'd be the first to agree that in most cases it is applicable. However, in cases such as this one, where one of the parties has demonstrated a clear intent to elicit a gut-level visceral response using emotionally charged subject matter (trolling)

True, the title of this thread was more of a statement than a question! Sir Isaac may very well be trolling... Surely it wouldn't be the first time. Please be careful not to take the bait to easily. I enjoy reading your posts Al, and would hate it if you got turned off to posting here. (but not this thread LOL)

Die Thread Die! LOL

[Al Swearengen]

Point taken. Thank you, Rhertz, I enjoy your posts as well. I'm here for the long haul...its just that this is one of my hot-button issues and I tend to get carried away.

[Isaac-Saxxon]

Sorry to hit your hot button. I know some of my points where not taken
in the way I ment them. I did read all your replys and do respect your
thoughts and opinions. I too will drop this subject and move on. You too
have a good weekend. There is one Judge not me or you but God Almighty !
I have NEVER been on a web site or a chat room ever that was a open
page to be written on. I have already learned alot. Thank you Al !

Isaac-Saxxon